Morning everyone. Grrr... It's month end so I am actually going to be busy today but I will try to keep up here on SL.

LOL... This continues to come up time and time again. This is such a typical theist scared poopless view of science. You are projecting theist science onto regular science. Theists set out to prove creation is right. Scientists just discover and draw conclusions from thier discoveries. It is not about saying "f you" to creation. That is secondary.

 

you know krusty, whenever someone posts you an arguement about christianity, it makes sense that your nature reaction is to attack the accuser's beliefs, instead of acknowledging the argument and debating that point.

But as many have told you, evolution is not a grand theory and to find fault in a certain part of astrophyics or evolution or natural selection is not going to "tear down the walls of atheism". Even if some cro-magnun man or other skeletons turn out to be hoaxes, that's fine, there are many other reasons to believe in an ancient earth and that animals evolved.

But the thing is, if you admit even 1 page of the bible is a lie, is actually false, as it's pretty easy to see with the flood, the walls of your religion do come down, and that is probably scary. A lot of the bible, i'm sure you don't agree with, but still you say it's true, right?

If you based your beliefs on a lie, that the "word of god" turns out to be "word of an uneducated priest", then you believing it's in that whole jesus/god scenario means you were quite the victim of brainwash.

 

Wait, When did I say anything in the bible is a lie?

 

you didn't, and never said you did.

but regardless of how i feel about evolution, or any other misdirection you might want to point to;
Can't you see how there was no possible way to have any flood or amount of water bring up sea level to 16,000-29,000 feet only 4-5,000 years ago? yes or no?

 

Ok... I know that you think the earth is at least 2,000,000 years old because you said something to that effect at some point. Can you explain how this and the bible can coincide considering the 76 generation between adam and jesus? I am not saying you can't, I am simply unaware of how you do explain it.

 

Archaeopteryx
Dinosaurs forming simple wings. Probably one of the best displays of the connection between birds and dinosaurs.

 

I thought you read what I posted about the flood a couple pages back?

The bible says it covered the whole earth. The earth must of been flatter then, and the seas more shallow.

BTW, creationists didnt come up with the water canopy thing, that is mentioned in the bible, I know you said it would raise the surface temperature hundreds of degrees, I don't fully understand it, the bible dosen't explain it too much. I hope to be able to ask Noah one day.

 

How do scientists know that this isn't just a bird that is now extinct? Why does it have to be a dinosaur?

 

Krusty, are you ignoring me today or did you not see my question?

4 posts above this one...

 

Because it isn't a bird. It is a reptile. It doesn't have fully developed wings. They are structurally more similar to large hands with webbing and feathers than a proper bird wing. And the fact that birds didn't exist yet.

 

o i read it, but you didn't answer what I asked you, just talked about the flood in generalities. But when I point to the sea level raising 215 feet, that becomes ignored.

So are you saying betweem 4,000-5,000 years ago(when Noah is said by the bible to have lived), all the mountains in the world were no more than a couple hundred feet tall(yes that's even taking into account for shallower oceans)? yes or no?

Think about that, just 4-5k years ago you're saying the world's surface was drastically, like 99+% of a physical change, different than what it is today. Really.

You stand alone in that theory, as that totally debunks things like the grand canyon.

Before you start just throwing out other people's theories, look in to it yourself.

I'm not saying creationalist's water canopy theory would "raise the surface temperature hundreds of degrees". The theory itself says that.

No real scientist would say that between 4-5,000 years ago, our atmosphere was anywhere near what a water canopy would be, and since we have human fossils from all over the world that are even older than that, it would seem that humans before the flood lived in 99% the same atmosphere as ours.

If you want to use that in any form of discussion, spend time looking into why it wouldn't work.

I'm flat out saying the great flood could not have happened and the people that put together the bible, put it in there because they did not know the science of it happening couldn't be real.

Ok I have shown, the bible's great flood could not have happened as described in the bible, (i.e. it being 4,000-5,000 years ago, our atmosphere not being able to allow for life and a vapor canopy, and for water 29,000 feet above sea level). Now the ball is in your court. Put forth your theory how it could have happened.

Remember for the thousandth time, you can only prove something is, you can not prove something isn't. That's why, when you make a claim to anything, you must prove it true, not those skeptical or your theory.

 

I wasn't ignoring you, just we get busy here fast, and I missed your post.

Genesis 1:1,2

In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God’s active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters.

See, the bible says: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

It dosen't say how long ago that was, it just says in the beginning. The earth could of been around for millions or billions of years before the creative days.

I don't think the creative days were only 24 hour periods. Those "days" could be thousands of years long. In Isaiah (I think) it mentions something to the effect of "a day to us, is like a thousand years in yours (God's) Courtyard.

Man was pretty much the last creation, the earth was inhabited by animals for all "the days" before God created man.

 

it does say how long man has lived on the planet though. Adam-Jesus lineage says adam lived at most 6,000 years ago, even with the baloney "but noah lived 600 years" b.s.

 

I don't know Dave, Just think though, I know you dont want to think like this, but, IF the flood happened, and thousands of feet of water covered the entire earth, wouldn't that make huge unprecedated changes to the earth?

 

I'm not saying man has been on earth for longer than that.

 

yes, the pressure at the bottom of 7+ miles of water(in the deepest parts of the ocean) would be insane. Look I can and will play the "what if?" games, but when we move that to reality, you don't just say "well things would change" and stop at that. No go further, imagine if for 40days, the world's land was covered in 6 miles worth of water.

For one, any of asteroid impacts on this planet that are less than 5,000 would be wiped clean.

Any fossils or bones or wood or anything within that first couple miles up, would be nearly obilerated.

That amount of pressure would have crumbed the delicate rock formations in new mexico.

I imagine if you did a computer mock up of having the world's surface under 6 miles of water for 40 days, it would be evident how different our world would be.

 

Couldn't that sink the seabeds, if the seabeds sank, couldn't that make other areas (mountains, mountain ranges) spring up?

I don't know, you know a lot more about science than I do.

 

no it couldn't "sink the seas", as the earth is not hollow. Mountains spring up when 2 techtonic plates smash into one another, and one plate goes under and one plate moves on top.

then why are you even saying the flood could happen then? There's no way it could have, and until you, krusty, start actually writing it down and trying to figure it out for yourself, you won't see it. Does what I'm saying actually make sense?

Honesty, when we first got into this debate about the flood, i didn't even think how much destruction to our planet would happen if you actually put our surface at the pressure of having 6miles of water on top of it. That just makes the flood that much more impossible, sorry.

 

As much as I hate to help the enemy...

The only thing that comes even close to evidence for a flood is that the oldest living organism (I could find) is about 4,600 years old...

 

There is probably plenty of starfish than even older than that, as many starfish don't die from old age, being their body completely regenerates all the time, not just from loss of limbs.