Wow... So much raw emotion here. No doubt some tC's are truly awesome, and the car definitely has potential. I think the article is just pointing out the FACT that 90% of tC's don't have your turbo setup, but instead just an eBay special rasp edition exhaust. This 90% then goes and tries to race every properly fast car in sight. When I was on my bike, tC's and honda's were usually the ones nearly running me over trying to get me to race...

Not all tC's are losers, but as the insurance data shows and proves, many tC drivers are just plain incompetent. I loved my gen1, and know many tC owners which I have a huge amount of respect for. I would have shipped it with me to Thailand if the import tax weren't so ridiculous.

 

^^Wonder if that has to do with the number of tC owners who use to be Honda rice boys....LOL.

 

Hey hey... Same goes for Honda... There is certainly a handful of very respectable honda's.

 

If you look around at the pros now, a lot of them started out with Hondas. I did notice almost all of the OG's use different platforms now. Chris Rado, Ron Bergenholts, Stephen Papadakis, Lisa Kubo, etc. Yeah I liked Hondas before I got my license, but I wanted a '76 Corolla or '91+ MR2. But what I ended up with was an automatic Honda. Then I got an '85 CRX 5spd and that was the one that got me hooked. It wasn't about getting a Honda. It was because it was different. Everyone back then worked on Camaros and Mustangs. It was also and identity thing too. The white guys had the muscle cars, the latinos had low riders, the black guys had combination of both, the asians had nothing until imports (Hondas,Toyotas,and Nissans) got popular. I'm not saying that imports only belong to the asians. But back then when you said import or 4 banger everyone thought "asians".

 

But I thought import people all looked like Paul Walker, hahahaahahhahaha!

Still, Honda's are very respectable. The K20 and the K24 are both solid motors. And speaking of the CRX, it's an absolute beast with an H22. 180HP is a "big" deal with the new tC out of 2.5L, but Honda has been producing output of that range from 2.2L for nearly 20 years now, not to mention a whopping 240HP out of a 2.0L NA motor (and priced to match output, of course). And don't forget that the Acura/Honda Integra Type R was one of the best balanced FWD platforms, period.

I'm no Honda fanboy, but I'm just saying that to ridicule Honda would be to ridicule Toyota and Scion too. And for the record, I personally have never purchased a Honda.

In terms of the Pros. . . well they are professionals now, so I'm sure they drive whatever the sponsors pay them to drive. MotoGP riders will switch from Ducati to Yamaha to Honda to whatever. I'm sure if Vespa raced, they'd have a pro too. Formula 1, Nascar, D1, any REAL racing series see's people switch brands. I'll bet you that a big reason Ken Block latest video features a Ford Fiesta (HEAVILY modified for RWD and drifting) is that there was a large check made out to somebody somewhere. Honda was great for helping those you mentioned to become known, as they were cheap platforms to build on. And a big reason you don't see the pros stick to Honda is that they aren't exactly dumping money into racing, at least not anymore.

 

Very very true. I like how you say if you ridicule Honda you'ld be ridiculing Toyota and Scion, because they ARE in the same category. They both started in the automative world the same way......cheap and reliable. Now they are top dawgs that domestic cars would love to be compared to. Even though they used to laugh at the little economic vehicles in the 70's and 80's.

 

yep well changed my mind on selling zpi kit just gonna run 14psi till it blows and build it

 

That's because Honda favors Low displacement High Hp, Low torque motors. Toyota's produce torque. Don't forget though it's not like Toyota cant develop the same style engine as Honda does....I.E. 2zz-ge. With VVTi-L and still made more torque than Honda did/does.

The displacement of the tC though will come into play when you toss that turbo on there. Already being dynoed at 180whp (not 180 crank hp that Toyota rated it at), in stock form. But on boost as World Racing has already done, at 8lbs of boost you are looking at 320-330whp/300wtq.

Not to take away from Honda cause they are light and that light weight favors great handling, but if they were the Greatest handling, best balanced FWD cars Period....then they would be owning track records or have teams building them to the same kind of caliber that the tC has been built to. Yet a tC being only out since 2004 and having a rather "economical" motor is a World Record holder for 10 US tracks across the country and perhaps the fastest FWD Road Racing car on the planet.

You would think that honor would go towards some of the Honda's that have been LONG in development before a tC came along. No Honda has ever come close to the lap times posted by the World Racing tC. I'm just saying...




That's because Subaru dropped their WRC participation. He most likely would not be in a Ford Fiesta is Subaru was still active in WRC.

 

^ Yes I know about Subaru dropping WRC. But he easily could have gone to a billion other places first. My point is that superstars are sponsored, and don't choose which car manufacturer to go to based on how good it is.

 

A billion? More like 2, Citrogen or Ford as they are the only two who run WRC anymore. I get what you are saying though, and yes $ talk. Still though, we know a lot of proven FWD platforms were there long before the tC, but that does not negate the records being held by a tC. Only other car I recall holding a significant record was the GM built Cobalt SS that held the Willow Springs Record for like 5 years for fastest FWD time. That is until Rado smashed it...


To bring it a little back on topic, it's not a poser car. Those people who ARE Poser's would make ANY car in this price bracket, be a Poser car. It's not until that individual grows up and show some Maturity will they ever learn. Cars are not built to be Poser cars....People who drive them turn them into that and it then gets "generalized" by the Idiots who don't know any different.

Example....Honda's obviously have the Largest group of Ricer in their community than any other make. Thinking their little non-Vtec D16 Civic is fast because it says Honda on it. However, we all know a little Civic coupe with a Motor swap (LSVTEC or something) + turbo would be one bad MF. But since 9 out of every 10 Honda drivers you come across are Rice boys....the proper respect rarely gets paid.

 

^AMEN

 

rythmnsmoke you are so well informed and I am glad someone as knowledgeable as you replied to this incredibly blasphemous (ok maybe that was putting the tc a liitle TOO high on the pedestial lol) post. I'm a BIG fan of being hated on so when I purchased the tC, many of my friends and other drivers called it a "girl" car and waste of time. That was only inspiration to make mine a beast in comparison to most of these "manly" cars....nonetheless, people can never suck up their pride. I too know the thrill and satisfaction of whooping the ___ of a car as "manly" as the 350z....especially with the LOUD ___ exhaust it had just for a few head turns (I personally prefer the sexy flutter sound of the HKS SSQV BOV, but that's neither here nor there). Bottom line, this is a SCION forum, created BY SCION enthusiasts, FOR SCION enthusiasts, lol why are people doggin on the tC? That's like being on the Patriots, wearing a Colts jersey....anyways....once again, thanks for posting your rebuttal...if you notice....NOBODY had shxt to say after you made your intelligent, fact-filled point...

 

I'm not sure that anybody is hating on the tC (at least not the 1st gen). I think the tC1 is great for what it is. . . and many people have done fantastic things with them. The people who are hating, are the ones who acknowledge the fact that the MAJORITY of tC owners are completely retarded. Now that may not be the case for this forum (as the opinions of most people here are above most of those encountered on the street), but you have to be completely blind to miss this fact. The insurance data more than backs up the FACT that tC drivers drive like idiots. But again, there are no absolutes.

It's the people, not the car, that ruins the image; especially when they have this "mightier-than-thou" complex, unwilling to hear ANY negative comment whatsoever. Tell a Ferrari owner forum their cars are posers, and you may get one or two people to enter a flame war, but most of them will scoff, happily living on with their ownership. They won't think twice or even bother to reply. Go on a Scion board, and say you don't like the cupholder design, and half the members erupt in a massive defensive over-compensation. And God forbid there is any talk of a rival car or a faster one, everyone will complain that a turbo-nitro-meth model will beat the rival, all the while 98% of the repliers have only a cold air intake and an ebay exhaust. . . oh yeah, and a strut bar with no other suspension mods. Usually the people here who are most "anti-negative" comments on the tC are the ones talking the most smack about other cars. . . and that's just being hypocritical. Be cool. Don't hate if you can't accept criticism, and all in all, not letting it disturb you while moving on with a smile on your face is the best way to get through life. But I'm sure somebody will get mad at something I said. . .

 

Gym-Tan-Laundry-Drive My tC cause its Fist Pumping hott!

 

Thanks man. LOL...I did notice that the thread went quite, but I didn't want to be the one to point that out.

 

That might be the case for people who spend their time in the F/I section. But can't say the same for the other sections on this forum who spend most of their time with bling bling rims, radios, and upholstery.




I'm sure they get the same altercations as well, but only from likewise competition (BMW, GTR...etc. crowd). I'm pretty sure there was a flame war brewing somewhere between the new 2011 Mustang GT owners/potential buyers, and the BMW M3 crowd when the reports started coming out how the 2011 GT was outperforming a BMW M3. Likewise competition antagonizes Likewise competition. You won't find a Scion owner going over to the Ferrari forums talking about how their cars are posers. Nor do you find a Ferrari owner coming onto a Scion forum doing the same. Instead it's Honda owners, Hyundai, Kia...etc for example.

There is a difference between criticism and flat out false information. To many Bandwagoners get on here and instead of doing the research, they just go by what people say. And then get corrected by someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

 

I agree with most of the stuff you say, so I'm not arguing with you. But in terms of other rides and other forums, I've owned a few lexus's and a couple bikes, and I can tell you there is far less defensiveness over their own rides. Lexus owners have much respect for bmw's and mb, and most sport bike riders are in so much love with their bikes negative feedback won't phase them. Nobody really talks smack brand to brand for bikes, unless it's cruiser vs sport... And then it's just more so
An attitude thing and not a ride thing. Insecurity breeds defensiveness.

FYI, there is a Lexus forum with huge BMW, Audi, porsche, and even Hyundai appreciation threads. And they are not afraid to discuss any criticisms either... You'll also find that these guys get along well with other brands for car meets. It's less likely to be one brand, but rather a potluck of exotics or motorcycles, respectively. It's not about competition, but a sharing of passion. But yeah, an M3 is awesome, but it's nowhere near in the same league as a Ferrari. Hell, it may even be faster than an old F40 or Diablo, but like I said... It's not about being the fastest by a fraction of a second. They'll save it for the track or for the pros.

 

^^Indeed. I'm sure Motorcyclist are of a different breed when it comes to this. No matter what 2wheeler you are on, a fellow cyclist will always give you an acknowledgment as they pass one another on the streets. I will be joining that subculture next year hopefully (GSXR 600/750).

And also taking into account the demographic of Lexus, BMW..etc owners. Most of them are not 18-29yr old males/females like you find in the Honda, Scion, Kia, Hyundai...etc. forums, so I can definitely understand the nature over on the Lexus boards are different.

Same for the 350z boards, didn't see to much negativity there, when I had my 350z. There was some, but not enough to notice.

 

I think generally any group you encounter will have it's bad apples. I hate how people generalize or categorize without going beyond just talking ish. I left the import scene because after Fast and the Curious came out there were so many posers. I don't even categorize myself as an import guy. Now although that's what I surround myself with the most, but I consider my self an automotive enthusiast. I love anything that involves burning rubber, engines, and modifying. All the way down to RC cars and scale models. My dream garage would consist of a '66 Shelby Cobra, 68-9 Camarro, NSX, and a '90 Skyline R90. Why can't we just share our passion for cars rather than trying to put down the guy that doesn't build a car exactly the way I do. BTW I'd love to have some Italian and German cars but I figured I'd be broke after any two of the 4 already mentioned.

 

soooooo, who has suffered tC poser angst yet?