The tC NA Potential...am I missing something?
02-28-2008, 10:03 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by Nick06tC
oh wait, just saw your cardomain and you think you have 170hp with just an intake and cheap exhuast.
Yeah willis, you dont know much about our engines.
Yeah willis, you dont know much about our engines.
i probably know more cars then you ever will and obviously i was being sarcastic or did you not see the wink 
common.. adamantium vavles ...
think now think 
btw i think your the one that doesn't know our engines.. if you did you would know the 07-08's have dyno slightly higher when compared to the older engines and that with just the intake you would be atleast 145+whp add another .5-1whp for that exhaust lol... heck even one of the guys on here with a 05 or 06 dynoed that with the trd intake and exhaust so im being slightly conservative
idk do the math on that one 170 -15% =?
02-28-2008, 01:10 PM
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I've seen a dyno of a I/H/E Tc tuned with CamCom and removed balance shafts put out 176hp/166tq which really isn't bad seeing as how our cars only have 9:8 compression (07's ftw =] ) I've seen numerous Rsx Type-s' put out well over 200 with BPU's and some tuning. I'm pretty confident that if you were to raise your compression it would help out dramatically with your numbers. However, to be able to use the power of having a high comp na car you are going to have to do allot of headwork. P&P, cams, springs and retainers... And finish all of that up with a nice tune.
02-28-2008, 01:31 PM
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it be nice if someone came out with a chip like they have for most other cars... heck look at the VW Rabbit with just a intake and a chip they are putting down over 160whp and 180ft tq on 91 oct ... why cant we have that... its lame i tell you.. lame!
02-28-2008, 01:36 PM
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LOL at this thread and alot of mis information put in it...unxpectederror pls stop posting as i agree with nick that u dont know much especially basing ur whp on assumption..
< still cant be touched...198 whp/195 tq untuned...
and get it right ppl.. 05-06 9:5 compression 07+ 9:6 compression... and wow 1whp & tq more... fkn noobs..
< still cant be touched...198 whp/195 tq untuned...
and get it right ppl.. 05-06 9:5 compression 07+ 9:6 compression... and wow 1whp & tq more... fkn noobs..
02-28-2008, 01:50 PM
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I hate to be the one to spoil anyone's parade... but...
You just simply cannot get much power from a 2.4L without boost. Sure, an N/A build costing nearly as much as the car (sarcasm) might net you 200-240 whp,.. but you're still underpowered as far as sports cars go, and you've got no room to grow!
If you build up for boost (strengthen internals, bored/sleeved, whatever) then you'll achieve much better power levels. But at the same time, you take the risk of blowing it all sky-high, in addition to the cost. But, at least at that point, you'll accelerate very quickly whenever you aren't breaking stock pieces that are performing far above their original tolerances.
The RSX-S is a better platform for power, sure... but even then, that's not that much! It's still a 4-banger!
----
Now, I'm sure I'll get flamed... with videos of 4-cylinder dragsters as "proof" that a 4-banger can be fast. But let me ask you... Do YOU have the sponsorships? The comparatively unlimited budget? The spare engines, the time, the tools, etc.?
The solution is simple. Remember why you bought a tC in the first place. It is a very good bang-for-buck. A fantastic daily driver. A few quick boltons doesn't cost much in terms of money or time, and these quick percentage gains can be justified. I did it. I'm happy I did. Is it a ton of power? No. Would I get my **** kicked in a straight line by a V6 sedan? Probably.
Most tC owners concerned with performance should pay more attention to suspension elements. While this car might not ever be competitive in a drag racing sense, it's got at least a shot in being competitive in local autocross competitions. Though, better cars can be had for sure, but it'll be tough to find a better daily driver that's brand new, this cheap, this quick, this reliable, and this fuel efficient. I've done well enough to be competitive, and have a blast while doing it.
You just simply cannot get much power from a 2.4L without boost. Sure, an N/A build costing nearly as much as the car (sarcasm) might net you 200-240 whp,.. but you're still underpowered as far as sports cars go, and you've got no room to grow!
If you build up for boost (strengthen internals, bored/sleeved, whatever) then you'll achieve much better power levels. But at the same time, you take the risk of blowing it all sky-high, in addition to the cost. But, at least at that point, you'll accelerate very quickly whenever you aren't breaking stock pieces that are performing far above their original tolerances.
The RSX-S is a better platform for power, sure... but even then, that's not that much! It's still a 4-banger!
----
Now, I'm sure I'll get flamed... with videos of 4-cylinder dragsters as "proof" that a 4-banger can be fast. But let me ask you... Do YOU have the sponsorships? The comparatively unlimited budget? The spare engines, the time, the tools, etc.?
The solution is simple. Remember why you bought a tC in the first place. It is a very good bang-for-buck. A fantastic daily driver. A few quick boltons doesn't cost much in terms of money or time, and these quick percentage gains can be justified. I did it. I'm happy I did. Is it a ton of power? No. Would I get my **** kicked in a straight line by a V6 sedan? Probably.
Most tC owners concerned with performance should pay more attention to suspension elements. While this car might not ever be competitive in a drag racing sense, it's got at least a shot in being competitive in local autocross competitions. Though, better cars can be had for sure, but it'll be tough to find a better daily driver that's brand new, this cheap, this quick, this reliable, and this fuel efficient. I've done well enough to be competitive, and have a blast while doing it.
02-28-2008, 02:07 PM
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^^ 1 your an idiot for comparing an rsx to a tc its 2 completely different motors built 2 completely different ways for 2 completely different purposes...
and also I EAT RSX'S ALL DAY... and some of the ones ive raced making more power then me...hell dude ive kept up with or even beat g35s on the highway and they are waaaaay out of my class.. only until about 125 when im about to run out of rpm and gearing to the pass...
boost is an easy way out for ppl who dont know how make a car fast without only using a turbo...
you ppl need to realize this car has only been out about 3 years how much r& d do u think can be achieved in such small time... thats why alot of ppl cant think outside the box and refer to a turbo to make power... give it a few more years... when ppl finally put out timing control units...and better obd2 EMS with complete control that are affordable (other then the ful AEM ems standalone) which is overkill on an NA budget...
stroker kits, big bore, HC pistons, valvetrains.. most of that crap is already out there... u dont need to rev to 9k rpms to make power all the time... get over the hump and the stupid comparisons already.... those kind of posts are OLD, stupid and boring!!!....
and also I EAT RSX'S ALL DAY... and some of the ones ive raced making more power then me...hell dude ive kept up with or even beat g35s on the highway and they are waaaaay out of my class.. only until about 125 when im about to run out of rpm and gearing to the pass...
boost is an easy way out for ppl who dont know how make a car fast without only using a turbo...
you ppl need to realize this car has only been out about 3 years how much r& d do u think can be achieved in such small time... thats why alot of ppl cant think outside the box and refer to a turbo to make power... give it a few more years... when ppl finally put out timing control units...and better obd2 EMS with complete control that are affordable (other then the ful AEM ems standalone) which is overkill on an NA budget...
stroker kits, big bore, HC pistons, valvetrains.. most of that crap is already out there... u dont need to rev to 9k rpms to make power all the time... get over the hump and the stupid comparisons already.... those kind of posts are OLD, stupid and boring!!!....
02-28-2008, 02:22 PM
#27
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^^ No, I'm not an idiot for saying the RSX-S is a better platform for naturally aspirated power. Of course it's apples-to-oranges... We've got a motor "built for torque and driveability", and it's got a motor built for NA power!
Sorry to hurt your feelings! But hell, a K20 isn't the end-all either! It's still a ____ant 4-banger!
Though I find your street racing exploits amusing, unless you're boosted, I highly doubt you out-accelerated those vehicles. In addition, how about some proof? Got timeslips? Got videos from the dragstrip? Why do you think you can compete with vehicles with 70% more horsepower AND torque, while they don't weigh even close to 70% more? Are you sure you're driving the same Scion tC that is routinely available at local scion dealers? Quite frankly, without boost, I haven't seen anyone a 1/4 mile time that would come close to anyone halfway serious about drag racing in a legal environment. 14.9 is not fast. An automatic G35 can hit better than that stock by simply mashing the gas pedal.
The whole point is, if you want to build a drag car, pick a better one. For the explicit purpose of building a drag racer, a C5 corvette could be bought used for about $24... and then you'll start with the CORRECT wheel drive, MUCH more power, nearly 3x the displacement, much stronger components, and infinitely more power potential. If a vette isn't your taste, then find another RWD V8 that suits your taste.
Or, buy something ridiculously lightweight and boost it to god-knows-where on a motor that didn't originally come in the car.
Sorry to hurt your feelings! But hell, a K20 isn't the end-all either! It's still a ____ant 4-banger!
Though I find your street racing exploits amusing, unless you're boosted, I highly doubt you out-accelerated those vehicles. In addition, how about some proof? Got timeslips? Got videos from the dragstrip? Why do you think you can compete with vehicles with 70% more horsepower AND torque, while they don't weigh even close to 70% more? Are you sure you're driving the same Scion tC that is routinely available at local scion dealers? Quite frankly, without boost, I haven't seen anyone a 1/4 mile time that would come close to anyone halfway serious about drag racing in a legal environment. 14.9 is not fast. An automatic G35 can hit better than that stock by simply mashing the gas pedal.
The whole point is, if you want to build a drag car, pick a better one. For the explicit purpose of building a drag racer, a C5 corvette could be bought used for about $24... and then you'll start with the CORRECT wheel drive, MUCH more power, nearly 3x the displacement, much stronger components, and infinitely more power potential. If a vette isn't your taste, then find another RWD V8 that suits your taste.
Or, buy something ridiculously lightweight and boost it to god-knows-where on a motor that didn't originally come in the car.
02-28-2008, 02:34 PM
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when i used to have my boosted Z24 i knew this dude karo on the j-body forums that had a 280whp n/a 2.4L and that was off the juice ... the engines in the cavaliers are pretty comparable if you ask me.. though with out the whole vvti
poor guy couldn't get that car past the low 12's even on the juice... he wasnt the best of drivers
but it just goes to show it can be done if you have 15-20k to waste like he did....however its not practical
btw whats so wrong with making a guestiment on how much power i have based on people who have the same exact mods as me but have been dynoed? people do this all the time its not just me...
why should i go out and spend 100 bucks to get my car dynoed when i already know apx with in 2-3whp +/- what i have because 5 other people already dynoed theirs all with the same results..
its not like we are talking about large variations like there is when it comes to boost .. its a intake and exhaust lol woowhooo i gained like 6whp over stock... give me a break its not like im calming it has 200hp lol
poor guy couldn't get that car past the low 12's even on the juice... he wasnt the best of drivers
but it just goes to show it can be done if you have 15-20k to waste like he did....however its not practical
btw whats so wrong with making a guestiment on how much power i have based on people who have the same exact mods as me but have been dynoed? people do this all the time its not just me...
why should i go out and spend 100 bucks to get my car dynoed when i already know apx with in 2-3whp +/- what i have because 5 other people already dynoed theirs all with the same results..
its not like we are talking about large variations like there is when it comes to boost .. its a intake and exhaust lol woowhooo i gained like 6whp over stock... give me a break its not like im calming it has 200hp lol
02-28-2008, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by senseiturtle
^^ No, I'm not an idiot for saying the RSX-S is a better platform for naturally aspirated power. Of course it's apples-to-oranges... We've got a motor "built for torque and driveability", and it's got a motor built for NA power!
Sorry to hurt your feelings! But hell, a K20 isn't the end-all either! It's still a ____ant 4-banger!
Though I find your street racing exploits amusing, unless you're boosted, I highly doubt you out-accelerated those vehicles. In addition, how about some proof? Got timeslips? Got videos from the dragstrip? Why do you think you can compete with vehicles with 70% more horsepower AND torque, while they don't weigh even close to 70% more?
The whole point is, if you want to build a drag car, pick a better one. For the explicit purpose of building a drag racer, a C5 corvette could be bought used for about $24... and then you'll start with the CORRECT wheel drive, MUCH more power, nearly 3x the displacement, much stronger components, and infinitely more power potential. If a vette isn't your taste, then find another RWD V8 that suits your taste.
Or, buy something ridiculously lightweight and boost it to god-knows-where on a motor that didn't originally come in the car.
Sorry to hurt your feelings! But hell, a K20 isn't the end-all either! It's still a ____ant 4-banger!
Though I find your street racing exploits amusing, unless you're boosted, I highly doubt you out-accelerated those vehicles. In addition, how about some proof? Got timeslips? Got videos from the dragstrip? Why do you think you can compete with vehicles with 70% more horsepower AND torque, while they don't weigh even close to 70% more?
The whole point is, if you want to build a drag car, pick a better one. For the explicit purpose of building a drag racer, a C5 corvette could be bought used for about $24... and then you'll start with the CORRECT wheel drive, MUCH more power, nearly 3x the displacement, much stronger components, and infinitely more power potential. If a vette isn't your taste, then find another RWD V8 that suits your taste.
Or, buy something ridiculously lightweight and boost it to god-knows-where on a motor that didn't originally come in the car.
one of the dynos i have before i peaked at 198..this was before my last upgrade...before the motor was sold..
http://s101.photobucket.com/albums/m...peterdyno1.jpg
vid at the track... poor quality.. but gives a good perspective me vs a car about 400 lbs lighter with a gsr motor tuned...
i find your lack of open mindedness amusing as hell...
sad your only argument is bringing cars that are in another starting power class well above the tc....
Originally Posted by unxpectederror
when i used to have my boosted Z24 i knew this dude karo on the j-body forums that had a 280whp n/a 2.4L and that was off the juice ... the engines in the cavaliers are pretty comparable if you ask me.. though with out the whole vvti
poor guy couldn't get that car past the low 12's even on the juice... he wasnt the best of drivers
but it just goes to show it can be done if you have 15-20k to waste like he did....however its not practical
btw whats so wrong with making a guestiment on how much power i have based on people who have the same exact mods as me but have been dynoed? people do this all the time its not just me...
why should i go out and spend 100 bucks to get my car dynoed when i already know apx with in 2-3whp +/- because 5 other people already dynoed theirs all with the same results..
poor guy couldn't get that car past the low 12's even on the juice... he wasnt the best of drivers
but it just goes to show it can be done if you have 15-20k to waste like he did....however its not practical
btw whats so wrong with making a guestiment on how much power i have based on people who have the same exact mods as me but have been dynoed? people do this all the time its not just me...
why should i go out and spend 100 bucks to get my car dynoed when i already know apx with in 2-3whp +/- because 5 other people already dynoed theirs all with the same results..
02-28-2008, 02:40 PM
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You have a good point unexpectederror...
I think it just shows the level of ****-retentiveness. I mean, to some, a 1-2 hp difference is enough in their heads to think two vehicles are statistically different... though that power level is well within the standard deviation.
I won't be dyno'ing my car... unless I get a hell of a deal on someone throwing a SAFC my way, and I have a reason or means to adjust something.
I think it just shows the level of ****-retentiveness. I mean, to some, a 1-2 hp difference is enough in their heads to think two vehicles are statistically different... though that power level is well within the standard deviation.
I won't be dyno'ing my car... unless I get a hell of a deal on someone throwing a SAFC my way, and I have a reason or means to adjust something.
02-28-2008, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by senseiturtle
You have a good point unexpectederror...
I think it just shows the level of ****-retentiveness. I mean, to some, a 1-2 hp difference is enough in their heads to think two vehicles are statistically different... though that power level is well within the standard deviation.
I won't be dyno'ing my car... unless I get a hell of a deal on someone throwing a SAFC my way, and I have a reason or means to adjust something.
I think it just shows the level of ****-retentiveness. I mean, to some, a 1-2 hp difference is enough in their heads to think two vehicles are statistically different... though that power level is well within the standard deviation.
I won't be dyno'ing my car... unless I get a hell of a deal on someone throwing a SAFC my way, and I have a reason or means to adjust something.
let me guess you guys sit infront of the tv on saturdays and sundays watching horsepower tv and think a bullydog speed chip will also work on tuning the tc also right lol.... yeaaaaaaaaaaaaa if u believe that i got a tc chip for sale for u on ebay homie.. 
02-28-2008, 02:49 PM
#32
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TCpete.
Well, perhaps I stand corrected on your straight-line speed.
But, let me ask you this.. How much did all that cost you? How much time and effort did you spend to reach that 198 mark ? Is NA power really your goal? If so, then why did you go with the tC ?
And more importantly-
Why is this route better than simply buying a sports car to begin with? Sure, you can say, you've accomplished something... but is your goal to be a competitive racer, or just to be the guy with the highest NA numbers?
Sure, perhaps I need a "dose of my own medicine," in that I did not choose the ideal car to win STS. But I have different goals in mind, as I'm sure you do as well. This is a "bide-my-time" and "have-a-little-fun-with-it" car until I can afford something that will actually be competitive.
Well, perhaps I stand corrected on your straight-line speed.
But, let me ask you this.. How much did all that cost you? How much time and effort did you spend to reach that 198 mark ? Is NA power really your goal? If so, then why did you go with the tC ?
And more importantly-
Why is this route better than simply buying a sports car to begin with? Sure, you can say, you've accomplished something... but is your goal to be a competitive racer, or just to be the guy with the highest NA numbers?
Sure, perhaps I need a "dose of my own medicine," in that I did not choose the ideal car to win STS. But I have different goals in mind, as I'm sure you do as well. This is a "bide-my-time" and "have-a-little-fun-with-it" car until I can afford something that will actually be competitive.
02-28-2008, 02:52 PM
#33
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FYI bro... incase u have your heart set on an SAFC... theres no vvti or 2azefe selector for the motor lol.. so unless you wana try tuning ur a/f's on an hack ems that wont read the ecu completely or maybe u have some kinf of vtec in ur motor no one else has... ur pretty much buying that thing to watch your rev numbers go un and down and have a bunch of lights go on an off inside the car for decoration LMAO!... but if that impresses u and makes u think ur doing something good then go right ahead ..... lol
02-28-2008, 02:54 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by TCpete
and the fact that your ignorant enough to think a SAFC can be used to tune a tc to any kind of respect only shows me how much you really know about the car/motor/ or tuning in general on most obd2 cars.... LMAOOOO!!!!! wow...
let me guess you guys sit infront of the tv on saturdays and sundays watching horsepower tv and think a bullydog speed chip will also work on tuning the tc also right lol.... yeaaaaaaaaaaaaa if u believe that i got a tc chip for sale for u on ebay homie.. Way to keep it mature, buddy.
This isn't my first time around the block.
I wish you the best. Hopefully you'll reach whatever goal you're aiming for. This conversation has obviously extended outside your level of maturity.
02-28-2008, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by senseiturtle
TCpete.
Well, perhaps I stand corrected on your straight-line speed.
But, let me ask you this.. How much did all that cost you? How much time and effort did you spend to reach that 198 mark ? Is NA power really your goal? If so, then why did you go with the tC ?
And more importantly-
Why is this route better than simply buying a sports car to begin with? Sure, you can say, you've accomplished something... but is your goal to be a competitive racer, or just to be the guy with the highest NA numbers?
Sure, perhaps I need a "dose of my own medicine," in that I did not choose the ideal car to win STS. But I have different goals in mind, as I'm sure you do as well. This is a "bide-my-time" and "have-a-little-fun-with-it" car until I can afford something that will actually be competitive.
Well, perhaps I stand corrected on your straight-line speed.
But, let me ask you this.. How much did all that cost you? How much time and effort did you spend to reach that 198 mark ? Is NA power really your goal? If so, then why did you go with the tC ?
And more importantly-
Why is this route better than simply buying a sports car to begin with? Sure, you can say, you've accomplished something... but is your goal to be a competitive racer, or just to be the guy with the highest NA numbers?
Sure, perhaps I need a "dose of my own medicine," in that I did not choose the ideal car to win STS. But I have different goals in mind, as I'm sure you do as well. This is a "bide-my-time" and "have-a-little-fun-with-it" car until I can afford something that will actually be competitive.
+ to many honda thefts were i live so FK a K series for that..
this my im gonna screw around with my time car.. not my real car that i plan on getting in the future..i did the NA route cuz FK boost.. anyone can do that...
NA was my goal at the time because i knew it was feasible and doable.... and no one was doing it.. so why not... prove ppl wrong ( like u ) that the tc has no potential... ( which is BS )....
either way now im going in another direction.. on boost ( why?) because it gets old beating the same cars and now im going after bigger fish and bigger ppl....
simple as that. i did what i wanted back then.. now i have new goal... and working on it now...
Originally Posted by senseiturtle
This isn't my first time around the block.
I wish you the best. Hopefully you'll reach whatever goal you're aiming for. This conversation has obviously extended outside your level of maturity.
I wish you the best. Hopefully you'll reach whatever goal you're aiming for. This conversation has obviously extended outside your level of maturity.
02-28-2008, 03:48 PM
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LMAOOO!!! lol jrod ...im not trying be cocky.. just trying to get ppl to stop thinking it cant be done lol...i get aggravated seeing ppl post up false info..or close minded stuff.. nothing personal u know lol
02-28-2008, 04:33 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by TCpete 11/10/07
i dynoed 189 whp and 191 on another day...sadly though..im no longer all motor NA...the 11.1 block is gone and now..its time for boost
Originally Posted by TCpete
boost is an easy way out for ppl who dont know how make a car fast without only using a turbo...
Originally Posted by TCpete
one of the dynos i have before i peaked at 198..this was before my last upgrade...before the motor was sold..
http://s101.photobucket.com/albums/m...peterdyno1.jpg
http://s101.photobucket.com/albums/m...peterdyno1.jpg
I see what you're saying here.
