Ryhian

XRS. Although that market is not nearly as widespread and popular as the v-tech line of honda's. Not to mention it hasnt been around nearly as long.

dp-_-

i test drove the xrs corolla and matrix....both were slower than the tC

2redgerm6

they just seem slower. i used to have a regular corolla so i spent a lot of time on 9thgencorolla.com and i have seen vid. after vid. of xrs matrixs and corollas blowing the doors off tc. but there is much more potencial in the tc. for one if you put a aftermarket header on a 2zzge it will lose power because the stock one is the best flowing so far. this saying honda engines are all crazy and the best to mod are people forgeting about the 4age 3sgte and the supra motor (brain farted the code just now lol) these are all very buildable along with crazy amounts of nissan motors. rite now toyota is busy taking over the car world they don't have time to fiddle with motors that accept the aftermarket. but if you look into autosports you will see toyota makes race motors for race applications and daily driver cars for daily driven applications. i'm not saying honda sucks or anything but saying they're the BEST to modify i disagree. i'll take a sr20det powered silvia or a vq powered 350z to modify any day over any honda on the market.

OuterHeaven

Hondas are great to mod if you want a small displacement engine but they do not really have that much aftermarket support for the V6 and bigger engines. Hell even the prelude 2.2l engine does not have that much aftermarket support (at least compared to the other Honda engines).

engifineer

Neither does HP. PLEASE dont get that ridiculous comparison started again.. it is so far off base from anything real and technical it makes me sick. YOU CANT HAVE ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER!!!!!!!! It is SIMPLE physics. And sorry, but with the right setup, a car with a lot of TQ will school your 4 banger ANY DAY. Next time you go out and run against a 300whp v8 with a 300whp 4 banger with half the tq, let me know who wins. But in the overall scheme, it is a balance.. period.. you cant compare the two.. which is where this is heading.

Second a honda civic or acura integra are about as much of a sports car as a tC or anything else, cause the ARE NOT SPORTS CARS. There is a larger market for parts and a lot more being done for the hondas cause they have been out there in that market forever. And the reason that is :

1) They build reliable engines
2) they are CHEAP

That is it.. kids can afford to mod those rather than buying a 30,000 car.

Other than that, all of these types of cars are simply economical cars that can handle some modding and be somewhat fast (practically).

Stop getting your panties in a wad cause someone wants to compete with the BIG BAD SUPER DUPER VTEC (which is basically a way to keep good performance while meeting emmissions standards and keep fuel economy). It is a great system and they are great cars.. but you act like they are the end all of the performance industry.. they arent even the beginning. Stop trying to make them, or any small, sub 250 hp car more than it really is. Just have fun with what you drive and enjoy it for gods sake.

engifineer

Sorry to sound like I am attacking, but it always turns into which econo box is the best "sports car" or the discussions that make hondas out to be THE race car of the century, which they are not. In all reality, most of the cars talked about perform very close to each other stock. What is different with the honda is that people have been modding them FOREVER. So there are a lot of parts out there for good prices, and people have figured out all the bugs in them. Back when I was 16 (14 long years ago now ) I knew 4 people with hondas .... couldnt keep them out of the shop, much less mod them reliably. They were 100% junk in my opinion. The only one I knew at the time that was halfway ok was a CRX, but he still had a million issues with it (yet still swore by it cause "its a honda"). But my point is, there has just been more experience with them over time and more of the weak points have been discovered. But they still arent sports cars by any stretch. And you cant compare controlling vvti to controlling vtec. For one, they are totally different principles. For another, vvti is constantly variable while vtec is on and off for the most part.

TimmyT

Your ideas intrigue me.. and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

:D

Ryhian

as 2red said, they just seem slower mainly from the lack of torque. They're about half a second quicker than the tC stock for stock. And as he said the tC has way more potential than the XRS line of toyota. the tC has been out a couple years and already has a bigger aftermarket than the XRS/GTS line of toyotas.

travisallenn

true that! real race cars runs an fr ormr setup anyway ff is just to sketch to handle in extreme track circumstances since not only do the wheels that turn are also the drive wheels putting more strain on the tires, but they also have all thier weight sitting up front to add to that.

oh well not saying ff cars are bad i love em too! but i also love fr cars!

want a sports car? go buy an m3

blackwagon

bashing hondas is fine with me, let em have it.... but when you stop to think of it there is no reason for it... yes there are many poorly done honda's but, in their defence what tc have you seen run a high 9 second quarter?

OuterHeaven

Well after the tC is 10 years old we will see what it is capable of. 9 sec Hondas are generally not done with anything but 92-95 Hondas. Maybe an RSX but that is it. Also those 9 sec cars are really drag cars and are not meant for the street. Though there are some 10 sec Hondas that are street able but that takes huge amounts of power and still only done with the older models. I am sure by the time a tC hits the 9's there will be a street able 8 sec Honda. We front wheel drive Toyotas are way behind the times in terms of performance compared to Hondas.

Brakefade

I'm not an expert on these things, but from reading that VVT and VTEC comparison article it seems to me that messing with the VVTi controller would only have negative effects on performance. Other people have to buy adjustable cam gears to retard or advance the inlet, and they have to either choose low end or high end power. We don't have to buy any cam gears, and we get the best of both worlds.

Toyota

OuterHeaven

The sad part is that i-vtec does the same exact thing but it also has 2 cam profiles.

killerxromances

Your wrong on so many notes. You guys are acting like i brought up honda, hello the name of the this effing forum is vtec vs vvtli, thats honda vs toyota but instead of talking about specific cars, your just talking about lift cam vs not, and design of each system. Exactly the same thing, everyone targets me for bringing up honda's yet majority of the time i'm not even the one that starts the conversation.

You can't have one without the other? Show me a diesel motor that can run the same times as any fully built 4cyl. Sure, its a completely different design might as well talk inline vs rotary's, but its the same concept. A crap load of torque, modified much more torque and plenty of whp yet slow. Also, with your v8 mustang theory. You can look online and see plenty of honda and toyota 4cyl schooling v8s. Why? Power to weight, not to mention that in a light car you do not need a load of torque to be fast. If your car weighs 1,700lbs and you have 280whp and 120wtq 8k redline, compare that to a 3,000lbs car with 280whp 250wtq with a 6,200rpm redline, who do you think is faster? If you believe the 3,000lbs car is going to be faster than you probably shouldn't even comment anymore on any forum without doing research. Why bring up redline you might ask? Because given how you measure whp and wtq, and given the physics behind how a motor works and since we are talking about torque i'll give you an easy example, and you may already know this..

a motor has 200wtq @ 6,000rpm, the same motor has 100wtq @ 8,500rpm (unlikely drop in numbers but bare with me). By your logic, at 6krpm the motor will be pulling harder than it would be at 8.5krpm. Which is wrong, and if anyone doesn't believe me just search around or ask professionals to explain it to you. Its pointless for me to, someone will just accuse me of bs or something retarded like that. With this said, wtq doesn't mean much of anything unless you want to haul something, for instance a boat, in that case, yes, you want something with lots of tq and you probably don't want to use a car to do it with. lol If you did know this already, you wouldn't have brought up half of what you said.

Also, i have never, ever said honda motors were the end of all performance designs. However, same can be implied to almost all tC owners on here claiming they beat modified sti's, evos, claiming they hung with gto's. porches and whatever you guys claim. Sure, some can be true but majority is crap yet the ignorance flows and people congrat the kill with a i/h/e tC "smoking" a i/h/e ep3, when that is a drivers race. In other words, raced a bad driver.

And why do i bring up honda's so much on here? Well, there are thousands of forums (rough esti) on here comparing the tc to a honda, and people get all bent out of shape when their tc can't beat a honda. People are constantly putting down cars (not just hondas) on here to make the tC seem more than what it is.

Oh, and by the way, performance wise honda does have a huge edge of toyota with whp per liter and general performance.

killerxromances

You cannot fully controll vvti like you can vtec. You can retard the timing, but its not the same. This has been said a few times now already.

SirScion

killerxromances, I like you dude, but you can be SERIOUSLY annoying He never said you could fully control the vvti, he only said it was BAD for performance.

killerxromances

Eh, maybe i'm just too annoyed with this community with repeated questions constantly, exact same threads popping up within hours from each other, drama, that i take it out and release it on each posts.

SirScion

join clubxb then, be where you belong! (link in my sig)


NOW back to the thread :D

engifineer

Sorry killer.. you , as usual are not worth arguing with. You miss the points I make so badly it is pathetic and argue way off topic. Not to mention you still argue that 3rd grade point saying I am wrong about not being able to "have one without the other".. as soon as you can mathematically explain that I will nominate you for the nobel prize.

I dont need to prove anything to you.. I have been turning wrenches my whole life and have actually taken the time to learn physics.. so I am not talking out my @$$. But I am wasting my breath apparently when it comes to getting anything through to you
You just get all upset and argue the same crap again and again.

You guys go on now.. I am sure killer will "teach you all the right way" :rofl"

zer0

Another VTEC Vs thread down the drain...
http://www.billzilla.org/vvtvtec.htm