look sick! no vids on the initial tune? i wanna hear that car!

 

so what type of engine management did you guys go with on this car?

 

we're working on it.

MrC

 

Currently we are running the e-manage ultimate. We will probably run it for this season at the track. We have plans to develop a pnp stand alone setup for those looking for an all out race setup (it's not a hydra, ems or motec). But the e-manage ultimate will fulfill 99% of the requirements for most turbocharged scions out there. It's the closest thing to a stand alone without going to a stand alone and loosing your OBDII in the process. If time permits, we will also test out the v-manage to control the VVTi.

Some of the other things we're working on with the ultimate is controlling the water/meth setup with a failsafe trigger that will be relayed back to the ultimate which we plan to create a map, to control an electronic boost solenoid. We're trying to explore the full potential of the e-manage ultimate. If we run into any issues with the MAF sensor, we will eliminate it all together, also using the ultimate. We've already done this with a twin-turbo supra--others say it could not be done on the ultimate, but we've already proved that you can convert a MAF setup to a speed density setup on a supra--the tc should be similiar. It just takes time, some know how and a few days on a loading dyno (dyno dynamics).

So all this time and money we're putting into our time attack car is not going to only benefit us, but hopefully everyone in the scion tc community. We'll keep you posted on our progress. Everything on this car was built and fabricated by us, including the built and sleeved motor, so if anything goes wrong, we will know exactly where to look, since we'll also be doing the tuning.

MrC

 

^^ that's nice to hear.. sounds like ultimate is gonna be the best piggyback once its all figured out and done right

 

wow...this thread just gets more and more exciting

 

I'm harder than Chinese algebra right now! (line from Robin Williams stand up)

Looks great guys! Keep up the great work! I am very interested in everything you all are doing! Please keep us informed and me informed of all of your progress. I like the whole idea of you running the MAF after the BOV, the way it should be (even though it is still not that great as the MAF can only measure the airflow and not the density of the air). What I like even better is the idea of converting the car to a speed density (MAP) car and eliminating the MAF altogether. I know that with the F/IC it has a built in MAP sensor and also can clamp the MAF voltage, how does this differ from the Ultimate? Does the Ultimate send a constant signal to the PCM and then you are adjusting off of MAP for the actual tune? If you don't want to go into details here then you can shoot me a pm.

Overall I love the way you are going about in doing this and can't wait to see the finish product/numbers. Hey, looking for anyone to sponsor?

 

i just noticed from the pics that i did not see any kind of cooling fan for the radiator. are you guys gonna add one or just leave it like that?

 

Actually our racing radiator works so efficiently that during the dyno run, you can actually touch the cooling fins on the middle and outlet side of the radiator and it's pretty much at room temperature, the same goes for our intercooler.

However, since this car will not always be motion,we do have a hp curve blade spal fan mounted on the radiator.




The radiator hose, radiator and cylinder head coolant hose maychange to braided lines with AN fitting before race day--if time permits. But for now, we are just testing our turbo setup.

MrC

 

N-I-C-E! nuff sedd.

 

I've been saying it for a long time now. These guys do amazing work!

 

PTuning,

This isn't the turbo setup you'll eventually be selling to the masses is it? I assume the pipes will be smaller, and be routed differently - so when will the actual kit for sale be tested?

Car looks badass btw.

 

Our plans right now is to possibly develop two turbo system. One, our all-out no-compromise race setup--same one on our time attack tc. The second one is our street/strip turbo kit. Both kits will be similiar in design but very different in layout, since the street kit needs to be an easy bolt-on and streetable setup. But the heart of the system that will be shared by both kit is our very efficient, low-mount, equal-length turbo manifold. The manifold will be 100% stainless steel, including the header and turbo flange (which most kits uses mild steel which will rust while the runners are rust-free. The only issue with using SS header flange is the cost (very expensive) and high expansion rate of ss when heated--which we will address. In addition both kits will use a blow-thru maf setup and a BOV.

Right now we are debating on whether the street kit should use a cold air intake setup like our race kit or we should route the filter next to the battery--like every other kit since there's only so many ways you can route the filter.

We will be testing our race setup during the redline time attack events and if we're satisfied with the MAF setup and manifold design, we will then finish up the rest of the components for the street/strip turbo kit. BTW, both turbo kits will include a new v-band downpipe/s-pipe that will bolt right on to our Ptuning 3" turbo-back or s-back exhaust system--for those that already purchased our exhaust or planning to purchase it.

We'll announce more information about the turbo kits in a few weeks.

MrC

 

Awesome - watching

 

sounds good, when you get some vids, sound clips, more pictures, dyno numbers, ANYTHING post it up! :D

 

Also, will you TA kit work with A/C? I noticed that you didn't have a condenser so I was assuming with that kit a/c will also be lost? Oh, and where did you tap into for the oil feed line for the turbo? Looks as if you tapped near the filter.

 

Our TA kit is designed for race use only--race cars don't have A/C. Also our dry-sump oil pump will be located in place of the A/C compressor.

We're using a filter block adaptor to feed oil to the turbo. The reason is that we do not like using a brass adaptors off of the cylinder head's oil pressure tap--at least not for racing--since the vibration from the motor can cause the brass adaptor to break--especially since only a small 1/8" size NPT brass thread is supporting the weight of the brass adaptor, oil feed line and factory oil sensor.

The benefit of the oil adaptor is that it does not require daisy chaining brass adaptors together to feed the turbo, which makes it more reliable--especially for a race car. Also the adaptor has provision for connecting an extra oil pressure sensor or oil temp sensor. We may include this with our street/strip turbo kit, but the downside is that it will add cost to the kit. The TA kit will include it though.

MrC

 

I see, and makes sense. I love the kit so much and if I were to purchase it I would probably do the race setup and just have 2-55 air (for those that don't know that saying, 2 windows down, 55mph). Do you have the oil cooler hooked up yet? I couldn't tell if you did or not from those pictures. If so will you have it setup like adapter - cooler - turbo? This kit is a very thought out kit, and the more I look at it, the more I am interested!

Talking pricing, can you give us a rough estimate of how much the street setup will be and how much the full race will be?

 

The oil cooler is not connected yet. It will not be connected until we finish our dry sump oiling setup. We are still designing the mounting bracket for the pump, once that's done, will have it cnc machined and finally be able to connect the system to the oil cooler. The oil cooler setup was designed specifically for the drysump setup and road racing, but we can definitely create a setup without the drysump system if there's a demand. The oil cooler is definitely a should-have item when converting to forced induction.

We do not have pricing yet. We are still trying to figure out what components we want to include in our street and race setup. If we use high-end components, the cost will go up, if we use less expensive components, we won't be 100% satisfied. Right now, we are trying to find a balance between the two. There are somethings that we feel we must include as part of both kits--regardless of the cost--we are not building these turbo kits for the masses. These kits will be for those who want a dyno-proven, track tested setup.

Both kits will use our stainless steel tubular, equal-length low-mount manifold, the header flange, runners, merge collector, and turbine inlet flange will be made of 100% 304SS--it's not cheap but we hate the site of rust.

Both kits will only be offer with a Garrett dual BB turbo: GT3071R, GT3076R, or GT3585R and maybe GT3085R. The garrett dual BB turbo is the fastest spooling, and most reiable turbo out there, bar none. It's expensive but it's worth every penny, the turbo will be using a V-band exhaust turbine housing. Again, we love v-band since it's leak-free and it will connect to our existing 3" Ptuning v-band exhaust system.

Both kits will use our MAF blow-thru setup.

Both kits will use a Tial 44mm wastegate & Tial 50mm BOV. Again, these components are expensive but worth it since both units utilize a v-band clamp and both have been race-proven.

Both kits will include the Ptuned e-manage ultimate, with a dyno-tuned based map, and a host of other features we're working on. We're doing all the R&D so you don't have to.

The Street kit will come with our 625cc injectors. The spray pattern is superior to the RC injectos.

The TA kit will come with 800cc injector or optional 1000cc injectors with an injector driver box.

We are also debating on whether we want to include a new factory oil pan with the oil return fitting prewelded on. The only problem is that it's going to make the cost go way up. But we've seen too many turbo cars come into the shop with leaking oil return line. Plus not everyone has access to a welder. Any feedback on this would be welcome.

The intercooler piping and intake tube will come in either Ptuning textured red (Same as our TA tc) or Ptuning textured black. The textured powder coating, helps the aluminum piping dissipitate heat a lot faster, plus it's very low maintenance.

From there the two kits will be differ.

MrC

 

Why not make a base kit then have it upgradeable from there. I mean have everything you have listed included, but if someone were wanting lets say the oil cooler, dry sump, fuel rail and return system with the surge tank, but stay with a smaller set of injectors (i.e. 625cc's), etc. With the street kit will there be a smaller intercooler available? How much will the piping differ if you are going to use the stock radiator?

Right now, my kit would be...
GT3076R, 625cc injectors (until I build the block), everything else you listed earlier, black coating, oil cooler, radiator, the fuel rail and return system (not sure about the surge tank yet, but probably), and if it were me I would love to have a pre-tapped oil pan since it seems as if you have yours welded on at and angle (I could have access to a welder and weld it myself, but I would rather the kit to be all "PnP"). I guess you could have a core charge on the pans if you'd like that way it can help keep prices down a bit maybe.

Also, why not offer the mani-to-turbo connection to be vband as well? And will you be offering high temp coating for the mani, dp, spipe, dumptube, and hot side of the turbo?

I also like the idea of using the oil filter adapter block and get your oil feed line off of that as well as using that location for your oil pressure gauge as well. This seems a lot safer than the other method for sure and will be good for both kits to have.

Overall I want to see this kit made, and I think it will definitely sell. My only concern is that with the Scion community, a lot of people cannot afford such an extravagant kit, so those who get it will be the lucky and rare few who do. I even see the street kit being more pricey than the other "street" kits that are out.

I cannot agree with you more on the quality aspect, that must be first priority over anything in my book. If you do produce this and have track/dyno numbers to prove its worth, then you will have buyers, me being one of them.

While you are at it, would you like my car to be used for a good base STOCK 2az-fe numbers? That way you can have numbers for both first gen and second gen? :D I could install very fast, I am afterall a technician and have access to many tools :D

it will never happen.... but worth a shot right?