PTUNING: Project RedLine Time Attack tC (updated pics pg 16)
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Originally Posted by t_urbo_C_harged
Originally Posted by Ptuningcom
The oil cooler is not connected yet. It will not be connected until we finish our dry sump oiling setup. We are still designing the mounting bracket for the pump, once that's done, will have it cnc machined and finally be able to connect the system to the oil cooler. The oil cooler setup was designed specifically for the drysump setup and road racing, but we can definitely create a setup without the drysump system if there's a demand. The oil cooler is definitely a should-have item when converting to forced induction.
We do not have pricing yet. We are still trying to figure out what components we want to include in our street and race setup. If we use high-end components, the cost will go up, if we use less expensive components, we won't be 100% satisfied. Right now, we are trying to find a balance between the two. There are somethings that we feel we must include as part of both kits--regardless of the cost--we are not building these turbo kits for the masses. These kits will be for those who want a dyno-proven, track tested setup.
Both kits will use our stainless steel tubular, equal-length low-mount manifold, the header flange, runners, merge collector, and turbine inlet flange will be made of 100% 304SS--it's not cheap but we hate the site of rust.
Both kits will only be offer with a Garrett dual BB turbo: GT3071R, GT3076R, or GT3585R and maybe GT3085R. The garrett dual BB turbo is the fastest spooling, and most reiable turbo out there, bar none. It's expensive but it's worth every penny, the turbo will be using a V-band exhaust turbine housing. Again, we love v-band since it's leak-free and it will connect to our existing 3" Ptuning v-band exhaust system.
Both kits will use our MAF blow-thru setup.
Both kits will use a Tial 44mm wastegate & Tial 50mm BOV. Again, these components are expensive but worth it since both units utilize a v-band clamp and both have been race-proven.
Both kits will include the Ptuned e-manage ultimate, with a dyno-tuned based map, and a host of other features we're working on. We're doing all the R&D so you don't have to.
The Street kit will come with our 625cc injectors. The spray pattern is superior to the RC injectos.
The TA kit will come with 800cc injector or optional 1000cc injectors with an injector driver box.
We are also debating on whether we want to include a new factory oil pan with the oil return fitting prewelded on. The only problem is that it's going to make the cost go way up. But we've seen too many turbo cars come into the shop with leaking oil return line. Plus not everyone has access to a welder. Any feedback on this would be welcome.
The intercooler piping and intake tube will come in either Ptuning textured red (Same as our TA tc) or Ptuning textured black. The textured powder coating, helps the aluminum piping dissipitate heat a lot faster, plus it's very low maintenance.
From there the two kits will be differ.
MrC
We do not have pricing yet. We are still trying to figure out what components we want to include in our street and race setup. If we use high-end components, the cost will go up, if we use less expensive components, we won't be 100% satisfied. Right now, we are trying to find a balance between the two. There are somethings that we feel we must include as part of both kits--regardless of the cost--we are not building these turbo kits for the masses. These kits will be for those who want a dyno-proven, track tested setup.
Both kits will use our stainless steel tubular, equal-length low-mount manifold, the header flange, runners, merge collector, and turbine inlet flange will be made of 100% 304SS--it's not cheap but we hate the site of rust.
Both kits will only be offer with a Garrett dual BB turbo: GT3071R, GT3076R, or GT3585R and maybe GT3085R. The garrett dual BB turbo is the fastest spooling, and most reiable turbo out there, bar none. It's expensive but it's worth every penny, the turbo will be using a V-band exhaust turbine housing. Again, we love v-band since it's leak-free and it will connect to our existing 3" Ptuning v-band exhaust system.
Both kits will use our MAF blow-thru setup.
Both kits will use a Tial 44mm wastegate & Tial 50mm BOV. Again, these components are expensive but worth it since both units utilize a v-band clamp and both have been race-proven.
Both kits will include the Ptuned e-manage ultimate, with a dyno-tuned based map, and a host of other features we're working on. We're doing all the R&D so you don't have to.
The Street kit will come with our 625cc injectors. The spray pattern is superior to the RC injectos.
The TA kit will come with 800cc injector or optional 1000cc injectors with an injector driver box.
We are also debating on whether we want to include a new factory oil pan with the oil return fitting prewelded on. The only problem is that it's going to make the cost go way up. But we've seen too many turbo cars come into the shop with leaking oil return line. Plus not everyone has access to a welder. Any feedback on this would be welcome.
The intercooler piping and intake tube will come in either Ptuning textured red (Same as our TA tc) or Ptuning textured black. The textured powder coating, helps the aluminum piping dissipitate heat a lot faster, plus it's very low maintenance.
From there the two kits will be differ.
MrC
Right now, my kit would be...
GT3076R, 625cc injectors (until I build the block), everything else you listed earlier, black coating, oil cooler, radiator, the fuel rail and return system (not sure about the surge tank yet, but probably), and if it were me I would love to have a pre-tapped oil pan since it seems as if you have yours welded on at and angle (I could have access to a welder and weld it myself, but I would rather the kit to be all "PnP"). I guess you could have a core charge on the pans if you'd like that way it can help keep prices down a bit maybe.
Also, why not offer the mani-to-turbo connection to be vband as well? And will you be offering high temp coating for the mani, dp, spipe, dumptube, and hot side of the turbo?
I also like the idea of using the oil filter adapter block and get your oil feed line off of that as well as using that location for your oil pressure gauge as well. This seems a lot safer than the other method for sure and will be good for both kits to have.
Overall I want to see this kit made, and I think it will definitely sell. My only concern is that with the Scion community, a lot of people cannot afford such an extravagant kit, so those who get it will be the lucky and rare few who do. I even see the street kit being more pricey than the other "street" kits that are out.
I cannot agree with you more on the quality aspect, that must be first priority over anything in my book. If you do produce this and have track/dyno numbers to prove its worth, then you will have buyers, me being one of them.
While you are at it, would you like my car to be used for a good base STOCK 2az-fe numbers? That way you can have numbers for both first gen and second gen? :D I could install very fast, I am afterall a technician and have access to many tools :D
it will never happen.... but worth a shot right?MrC
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Here's a preliminary dyno of our TA turbo setup with a completely stock motor. The support mods are as follows:
Engine: Stock '06 2az-fe motor, stock intake manifold, stock TB, stock cams
Fueling: Ptuning 625cc injector & return-style fuel system w/swirl pot, inline walbro 255LPH pump
Ignition: Stock Ignition, 1-step colder copper plugs
Turbo system: Ptuning Time Attack turbo kit w/GT3076R .82 A/R
Intercooler: Ptuning 3.5"-core bar & plate Racing I/C
Oiling: Stock oil pump, Redline SAE30W Racing Oil
Cooling: Ptuning 3"-core Racing radiator, distilled water, Redline water wetter
ECU: Ptuning E-manage Ultimate Custom Setup:
-Pressure sensor (w/stabilizer pil)
-Blow-thru MAF setup
-fuel trim defenser (electronic via e-manage)
-Speed-limit eliminator
-Increased Rev limiter 6500RPM
-EBC solenoid and custom boost map via e-manage
-No Check Engine Light
Exhaust: PTuning 3" Exhaust system w/ TA 3" v-band downpipe
Dyno: Ptuning Dyno Dynamics Twin-twin 450 lowboy (factory calibration) in dynocell enclosure
Fuel: 93 octane Sunoco (no meth/water)
Air Temp: 80 Deg. F
Boost: 14.0 PSIG
HP: 334.9 WHP (Dyno dynamics)
= ~375 WHP (Dynojet)
= ~385 WHP (Dynapack)
We don't recommend anyone running this kind of power on their stock 2az-fe motor. Our motor only has 3000 miles on it and it still pulls 20in/hg of vacuums and leakdown shows less than 2% consistently across all cylinders after 175 pulls in that 3000 miles. We just wanted to experiment to see how much power the stock motor can handle before the engine's mechanical limitations was reached without Detonation. Right now we need to finish up the rest of the car for track testing prior to the first Time Attack event in Nashville.
Once we finish building our two race motors, we'll push the stock motor a little more and see what happens. We'll also be pushing the limits of our race motors (both with our ductile iron sleeves, one 1st gen, the other 2nd gen) with our TA turbo setup. We'll also test out the water/meth injection setup with 93 octane fuel). In the next few months, we'll also test out our turbo camshafts as well as our ported cylinder head with oversize valves and upgraded valve train. We'll eventually offer all of these products (built short block, cnc pnp head, camshafts, turbo kits, fuel system, etc) for sale once we've completed our R&D on our TA race car.
MrC
Engine: Stock '06 2az-fe motor, stock intake manifold, stock TB, stock cams
Fueling: Ptuning 625cc injector & return-style fuel system w/swirl pot, inline walbro 255LPH pump
Ignition: Stock Ignition, 1-step colder copper plugs
Turbo system: Ptuning Time Attack turbo kit w/GT3076R .82 A/R
Intercooler: Ptuning 3.5"-core bar & plate Racing I/C
Oiling: Stock oil pump, Redline SAE30W Racing Oil
Cooling: Ptuning 3"-core Racing radiator, distilled water, Redline water wetter
ECU: Ptuning E-manage Ultimate Custom Setup:
-Pressure sensor (w/stabilizer pil)
-Blow-thru MAF setup
-fuel trim defenser (electronic via e-manage)
-Speed-limit eliminator
-Increased Rev limiter 6500RPM
-EBC solenoid and custom boost map via e-manage
-No Check Engine Light
Exhaust: PTuning 3" Exhaust system w/ TA 3" v-band downpipe
Dyno: Ptuning Dyno Dynamics Twin-twin 450 lowboy (factory calibration) in dynocell enclosure
Fuel: 93 octane Sunoco (no meth/water)
Air Temp: 80 Deg. F
Boost: 14.0 PSIG
HP: 334.9 WHP (Dyno dynamics)
= ~375 WHP (Dynojet)
= ~385 WHP (Dynapack)
We don't recommend anyone running this kind of power on their stock 2az-fe motor. Our motor only has 3000 miles on it and it still pulls 20in/hg of vacuums and leakdown shows less than 2% consistently across all cylinders after 175 pulls in that 3000 miles. We just wanted to experiment to see how much power the stock motor can handle before the engine's mechanical limitations was reached without Detonation. Right now we need to finish up the rest of the car for track testing prior to the first Time Attack event in Nashville.
Once we finish building our two race motors, we'll push the stock motor a little more and see what happens. We'll also be pushing the limits of our race motors (both with our ductile iron sleeves, one 1st gen, the other 2nd gen) with our TA turbo setup. We'll also test out the water/meth injection setup with 93 octane fuel). In the next few months, we'll also test out our turbo camshafts as well as our ported cylinder head with oversize valves and upgraded valve train. We'll eventually offer all of these products (built short block, cnc pnp head, camshafts, turbo kits, fuel system, etc) for sale once we've completed our R&D on our TA race car.
MrC
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 748
From: 909 CA
wow! great #'s for a stock motor. and its boosting at 14psi... whew! im happy to see that the stock motor can handle that much power.
have you guys ever tried putting longer rods to slow down the rev and maybe upping the rev limiter if you go stand alone? of course with this said, springs and retainers have to be upgraded too and so will the intake and exhaust valve to a much stronger component... i know $ is in play but this is just thinking outside the box kinda thing.
cant wait to see the rest when this is done! good luck guys!
have you guys ever tried putting longer rods to slow down the rev and maybe upping the rev limiter if you go stand alone? of course with this said, springs and retainers have to be upgraded too and so will the intake and exhaust valve to a much stronger component... i know $ is in play but this is just thinking outside the box kinda thing.
cant wait to see the rest when this is done! good luck guys!
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,603
From: South Florida
Yeah we were just talking about the power band in another thread - our cars are screaming for better cams so we can utilize higher rpms.
GJ PTuning.. I wonder what Dezod's and TT's kits make at 14psi.
GJ PTuning.. I wonder what Dezod's and TT's kits make at 14psi.
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Originally Posted by bluaeon
wow! great #'s for a stock motor. and its boosting at 14psi... whew! im happy to see that the stock motor can handle that much power.
have you guys ever tried putting longer rods to slow down the rev and maybe upping the rev limiter if you go stand alone? of course with this said, springs and retainers have to be upgraded too and so will the intake and exhaust valve to a much stronger component... i know $ is in play but this is just thinking outside the box kinda thing.
cant wait to see the rest when this is done! good luck guys!
have you guys ever tried putting longer rods to slow down the rev and maybe upping the rev limiter if you go stand alone? of course with this said, springs and retainers have to be upgraded too and so will the intake and exhaust valve to a much stronger component... i know $ is in play but this is just thinking outside the box kinda thing.
cant wait to see the rest when this is done! good luck guys!
Longer rod ratio will change the dwell time at TDC and also reduce the rod angle for less side load on the piston skirts. There's a lot of other factors that will be affected by changing the rod ratio. But going with a longer rod requires a custom rod and custom piston at a minimum. What we want to do down the road is to create a destroked billet crank that will allow us to raise the rev limit while still maintaining a reliable mean piston speed.
Of course raising the rev limiter serves no purpose unless your cylinder head/cams and turbo setup can continue to create power beyond the factory rev limiter. Raising the rev limiter in our case will allow us to achieve a higher speed in each gear and stay in each gear a bit longer on certain tracks without having to shift and in addition, it gives us a higher max speed in 5 gear.
Based on our current tire size and a rev limit of 6500, our theoretical top speed in 5th gear is 147mph instead of 141 (that's with the factory speed-limiter removed). For example, if we were able to make power at a redline of 7500rpm, running our race tires and the factory gearing, we could achieve a theoretical top speed of 170mph in 5th gear. We know we can make enough power to push the car beyond that, but if you bounce off the rev limiter in 5th gear before you reach that, it's useless. Of course we could have a 3.67 ring and pinion gear developed to achive the same top speed with a 6500rpm redline, but that's another project in itself.
The increase in revs will required very strong rods and piston/piston pins. Also it will create a lot more load on the crank's, so reducing the reciprocating mass (ie. pistons & rods) will help reduce the load on the crank.
And of course raising the redline significantly will also require upgrading the valve train components--stiffer springs, stronger valves, retainers, keepers, cam follower, etc. Of course with any motor, there are limitations to what can de done. Running stiffer springs will reduce chances of valve float, but will increase the wear on the camshafts, cam followers, valve seats, and so. The 2az-fe is a cam over bucket design which requires a more pointed cam profile than a cylinder head with cam over roller rockers. This will dictate the maximum duration you can achieve without create a cam profile that has a overly aggressive ramp rate (you don't want to pop the valve shut to quickly). Also the factory cam follower diameter limits the amount of lift you can run. We will be testing out some billet cam follower with DLC coating (F1 coating technologies) to allow the use of dual valve springs without excessive wear on the cam follower face and camshaft lobes.
Again, a lot of things are in the works but it needs to be tested before we can offer it for sale. We'll keep you posted.
MrC
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 748
From: 909 CA
i was just thinking of adding to my post about destroking the engine but my knowledge of that part is kinda limited... all i know from past cars that i have seen that had been destroked are too complicated on what you need to do and what you have to watch out for... like if you put a longer rod, you have to make sure that the side of the rod does not hit anything when its on its way up and down, especially on the side of the cylinder... im glad you guys are even thinking of destroking the engine in the future. this is good news. i have seen destroked engine and man, what a beast! keep up the good work guys! if this thing goes thru with no or little probs that can be fixed, well, i know where to buy my future turbo parts from.
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Posts: 3,773
From: West Palm Beach, FL
i think more power can be had with that setup. i dont know why power seems to plain off there. i have a t3 60-1 on my setup and my power keeps on pulling all the way to redline. how much timing do you guys have pulled?
never the less, the car is still impressive. as it sits now it should be a mid to high 12 second car.
never the less, the car is still impressive. as it sits now it should be a mid to high 12 second car.
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Originally Posted by brett561tc
i think more power can be had with that setup. i dont know why power seems to plain off there. i have a t3 60-1 on my setup and my power keeps on pulling all the way to redline. how much timing do you guys have pulled?
never the less, the car is still impressive. as it sits now it should be a mid to high 12 second car.
never the less, the car is still impressive. as it sits now it should be a mid to high 12 second car.
If time permits, we may take it to the strip for a fun run, although the car was developed for road racing.
MrC
