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Scion tC 1G Forced Induction Turbo and supercharger applications...

trouble making power up top...help!?

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Old Feb 22, 2009 | 09:08 PM
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Default trouble making power up top...help!?

specs: 06 tC

emanage ultimate w/ pressure sensor and support tool
innovate wideband o2 logged and viewed on laptop
MHI 20g @ 7-8 psi (10 psi spring losing a few psi in the core)
log mani
HKS bov
Turbo concepts WG
PWR liquid-to-air intercooler 4x6 core 390cfm max
2.5'' s-pipe with QTP cutout
1 step colder plugs, gaped at .30
93 octane gas

Problem:

Car makes peak torque(222tq) around 3700RPM, then it drops off, steady, at redline im at about 180tq. Numbers seem low to me, judging from some of the other dynos i've seen.

Power peaks at 222 also, just before redline.

Right now im pulling 1 degree of timing from 7 to 8psi, 2 deg to 10.

Anyone who can read a flowchart better than me and able to tell me the cfm im putting out at 8 psi, Here is a chart, wasnt sure what the "pressure ratio" was, its not in bar.


also, here is a crappy cell phone pic of my dyno sheet (sorry scanner is broke)
the "higher" lines are with my cutout open, the lower/less power lines are with my cutout closed


Ive seen up to 275whp on 8psi on a similar sized turbo, what gives?
Old Feb 22, 2009 | 09:15 PM
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hmm seem like low numbers to me, what are a/f's and i would definitly replace the wg spring if your loosing boost, your obviously loosing power....
Old Feb 22, 2009 | 09:20 PM
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Default Re: trouble making power up top...help!?

Originally Posted by rozz-tC
Problem:

Car makes peak power(222whp) around 3700RPM, then it drops off, steady, at redline im at about 180whp. Numbers seem low to me, judging from some of the other dynos i've seen.

Torque peaks at 222 also, just before redline.
i think you have your hp and tq numbers mixed up there.
Old Feb 22, 2009 | 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by SVicksTC
hmm seem like low numbers to me, what are a/f's and i would definitly replace the wg spring if your loosing boost, your obviously loosing power....
it holds boost, 7.6-8.4 psi from spool up to redline. just loses power. af/rs are around 12 coming in to boost then taper off to 11ish at redline. most of the boosted area is 11.5
Old Feb 22, 2009 | 09:23 PM
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another thing im wondering is why you have 2 step colder plus at 8 psi of boost? put the stock plugs back in and i bet you'll make alot more power.
Old Feb 22, 2009 | 09:25 PM
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hmm....i was going to say post a cfm chart but you did but i just see a red x....
Old Feb 22, 2009 | 09:25 PM
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Default Re: trouble making power up top...help!?

Originally Posted by brett561tc
i think you have your hp and tq numbers mixed up there.
haha good eye, i do. Ill edit. too much goin on at once.
Old Feb 22, 2009 | 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by brett561tc
another thing im wondering is why you have 2 step colder plus at 8 psi of boost? put the stock plugs back in and i bet you'll make alot more power.
Well the boost is going up, my ebc will be here monday. gonna try to hit 12psi if my injectors let me. But I do still have some stock plugs I think, would it seriously make that big of a difference?
Old Feb 22, 2009 | 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SVicksTC
hmm....i was going to say post a cfm chart but you did but i just see a red x....
here is the link, it shows for me. there site may block linking of pics.

http://www.stealth316.com/images/td06h-20g-cfm.gif
Old Feb 22, 2009 | 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by brett561tc
another thing im wondering is why you have 2 step colder plus at 8 psi of boost? put the stock plugs back in and i bet you'll make alot more power.
at what psi level would u suggest 2 stop colder plugs brett?
Old Feb 22, 2009 | 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rozz-tC
Originally Posted by brett561tc
another thing im wondering is why you have 2 step colder plus at 8 psi of boost? put the stock plugs back in and i bet you'll make alot more power.
Well the boost is going up, my ebc will be here monday. gonna try to hit 12psi if my injectors let me. But I do still have some stock plugs I think, would it seriously make that big of a difference?
i've picked up over 20hp on a mustang dyno from just simply adjusting the gapping on my plugs. try the stock plgs, or re-gaping the ones you have down to about .020 and see what happens.
Old Feb 22, 2009 | 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SoFloTC
Originally Posted by brett561tc
another thing im wondering is why you have 2 step colder plus at 8 psi of boost? put the stock plugs back in and i bet you'll make alot more power.
at what psi level would u suggest 2 stop colder plugs brett?
i'd say anywhere from 18-25 psi.
Old Feb 22, 2009 | 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by brett561tc
Originally Posted by rozz-tC
Originally Posted by brett561tc
another thing im wondering is why you have 2 step colder plus at 8 psi of boost? put the stock plugs back in and i bet you'll make alot more power.
Well the boost is going up, my ebc will be here monday. gonna try to hit 12psi if my injectors let me. But I do still have some stock plugs I think, would it seriously make that big of a difference?
i've picked up over 20hp on a mustang dyno from just simply adjusting the gapping on my plugs. try the stock plgs, or re-gaping the ones you have down to about .020 and see what happens.
stock gap is like .038 isnt it? I had the 7 range plugs at .026 but my "tuner" opened them up to around ".030 or so" he said.
Old Feb 22, 2009 | 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by brett561tc
Originally Posted by SoFloTC
Originally Posted by brett561tc
another thing im wondering is why you have 2 step colder plus at 8 psi of boost? put the stock plugs back in and i bet you'll make alot more power.
at what psi level would u suggest 2 stop colder plugs brett?
i'd say anywhere from 18-25 psi.
rule of thumb i've heard is 1 step colder plug for every 75hp above stock.
Old Feb 22, 2009 | 10:42 PM
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well at 18 lbs 2 step should be straight right lol
Old Feb 22, 2009 | 11:21 PM
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What is the trims and a/r's of the turbo? Are you sure the intercooler can flow enough CFM internally for the turbo and engine requirements? Also run 1 step colder plug gapped at .28-.31 see what this does for you.
Old Feb 22, 2009 | 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by toyota_scion_tc
What is the trims and a/r's of the turbo? Are you sure the intercooler can flow enough CFM internally for the turbo and engine requirements? Also run 1 step colder plug gapped at .28-.31 see what this does for you.
The core flows 390cfm, efficiently, so in theory it can flow more than that, just loses more boost as it passes. Max CFM for my turbo is 640, but I know at my boost lvls im not near that. I just couldnt figure out where im at with my boost lvl on the flow chart lol

I posted a link to a flow chart above. its a standard MHI 20g. Not sure on the trim or a/r without looking it up.
Old Feb 23, 2009 | 12:14 AM
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pictures? trying to figure out why you arent making power

what management
Old Feb 23, 2009 | 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by oilpanman82
pictures? trying to figure out why you arent making power

what management
emanage ultimate w/ pressure sensor

and I dont really have any pics under the hood, i lost my hard drive not too long ago.

What are you wanting to see? ill try to get some tomorrow.

I know the turbo can make power on my engine, its the same turbo travis uses im pretty sure, the upgrade from the zpi stage 1 kit.

here is a pic of it. only mine is external gate with a 4 bolt hotside flange
Old Feb 23, 2009 | 12:58 AM
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More thoughts what kind of dyno was this? What correction method was used? SAE or STD, SAE always shows less but is more accurate to your actual power.



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