amtc333

Hello everybody;

Every time I put my eyes on one of the kits I keep changing my mind so am trying to see why a person would choose a kit over the other. my main goal is for the max output with the min boost not to forget the price plays a big role too.

It would also be appreciated to see feedback from the ones that r turbo'd and let us know as well of how many psi and hp they r running and how the kits with them.


For me this what I always say about the kits when am trying to choose one; for DESCENDANT kit the cheapest, been out for a while and those guys are specialized in our car so they have most of the parts that we need but however every time I remember the price changed from 4250 to 4750 I start thinking of Ptuning which I like the look of their kit very much but not so much for the extra work that will be on us on changing the battery and all that I know it not much but it would be easier to just include it in the kit and with same price which is already a bit high, for Dezod I like the parts that comes with it and I can't say much about it yet because they have not even tested yet but I called and they said they will put it on the dyno this week or the one after.

If you read all of the above you can see that am not very knowledgeable about turbo or engines however am not shy to be laughed at and have a laugh with you too as long as you correct me. I might take time to understand but willing to learn. and to be honest that is why I might take dezod because looks to me lots of parts for about the same price of the others not saying that I know what those parts are but whn someone offers u 3 candies for 10 bucks and the other one offers u 5 for $10 obviously u would go with the 5 this how lack of knowledge I have.

please give me your opinion (which one would you choose and why)
thank you

Roller_Toaster

iTrader: (1)

wait, when did their price change from 4250 to 4750?!?!?

ugh, I'm just going to piece one together myself.

I would personally go towards descendnt/world racing, since they are the only one (that I know of) of the three that races their own product. I mean...they push them hard enough to blow them up, and know what fails, and how to fix it.

amtc333

I believe was about a month or so not sure though to be exact it is $4725 you can get it $100 cheaper in other places but still...
and yeah true it is good to know that it can handle all kind of abuse too.

RJSCION

I will be totally straightforward... DESCENDANT! Their kit is amazing, the quality is second to none. I have a 2011 SCION XB, which is A/T (stock) boosted at 8 lbs.... I run 14.1 @ 100 mph at the track, 0 - 60 times in 5.3 seconds. I get compliments like CRAZY on the workmanship of the manifold, the quality turbonetic's turbo, Tial Wastegate, and the overall cohesiveness of the kit. I cannot be happier. Call Descendant in Cali, ask for MIKE, tell him RJ sent you, he'll be more than happy to help. They even walked Toyota through the installation.... Amazing. I bought this amazing kit, PLUS amazing customer service. Text me for any questions and photos. 561-308-3838

Track Video:

Frost

The hard part about turbos is that everyone (owners and manufactuers) will say their kit is the best one. Its not like its easy to just swap kits and see the difference. I believe they all have very good components and spent plenty of R&D on each of thier kits. I have the Descendant kit in my car ( only one available at the time) but the thing I would look for beyond the kit is quality of service. Kareem, Rob, and Mike over at decendant have been awesome in all of my dealings with them. from random "noob" questiosn to any issues i've had they have always had an answer everytime and will go out of their way to make sure you are taken care of.

Sparky7

You (and the rest of us) will need to wait for dyno results of each kit. If we can't get a boost curve along with the power and torque, we will still only be halfway there. The power the kit makes is not as important as the shape of the torque and power curves along with the boost progression graphed as well. If these three curves are shaped correctly, that is an indication that the kit being tested is balanced in design, and safe. Which will allow you to make great power. Don't just look at output numbers of dyno testing, they are EASY TO MANIPULATE. People pay way too much attention to output. It's really hard to tweak a dyno to portray a perfect torque line, and have the correct boost line present in the graph. You can make a totally stock tc2 put down 220whp by changing one dyno parameter though.

andrew_ptuning

I will post dyno graphs, boost and tourqe curves of the two tc2's this afternoon once I return to work. I am also open to any questions regarding our kit and why we designed it the way we did.

You can also visit our tc2 turbo kit build page for more info. I recently took all the information from 20 pages and condensed it all into the first page of the thread.

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=195075

Thanks drew.

ashtc2

It seems to me that the reason why the ptuning kit needs a battery replacement and tray is because they didn't reroute the tubing around the battery. Here in this picture we can see that the tubing comes out of the turbo, but ptuning just did a straight shot. (compromising the space for the oem battery.) Then you're left with a bunch of open space (that I highlighted in yellow), where the filter could have been located.

Also, I was reading through the instruction manual, and I don't quite understand why the radiator needed to be modified. Isn't it just better to have the customer upgrade to a Mishimoto radiator. Better cooling, and easier install.

IMO, each kit has its downfall. And if one company could bridge the gap, it would be the turbo king.
Ptuning: Battery relocation, radiator modification
Descendant: Side Mount Intercooler
Dezod: We'll have to wait and see, but I'm not too familiar with them.

blown_xa

I copied this word for word ( I posted this in another thread)




There is no purpose to relocating the air filter inside the engine bay, unless it is to house the mass air flow sensor or to bring the filter away from a dump tube opening. The added piping and bends create suctional loss pre turbo. The only time there is a benefit to having an intake, is if it pulled in outside air cool enough to overcome the suctional loss. The best way to have an effective intake for a turbocharged setup is to have large diameter piping pulling in outside air. (4" cold air intake for example). Other than that,
intakes are a loss on a turbo tC setup ( dyno testing ). You will never see a 10 sec drag Honda with a 2.5" or 3" intake snaking through the engine bay... Some run a velocity stack on the turbo inlet, which helps. Ever notice the
shape on the inside of a decent cone air filter?


A turbo is simply a fan, or a turbine ( similar to a jet engine). Any restriction in front of a fan or turbine results in loss of efficiency... The turbo may make the same boost target, but it is working harder to do so. The concept of " reducing turbulence" pre turbo, is LOL really. The air hasn't even compressed yet.

ashtc2

Greddy does it too.


I'm just curious as to why you guys just attached the filter to the turbine while compromising the battery location. If drag racing was strictly my goal, I would sacrifice anything to get maximum output, but this is a bolt on kit for a street car. I can see it as a marketing ploy to have to buy the tray and battery, but other than that the other kits are getting just as much max hp.

Roller_Toaster

iTrader: (1)

I'd love to see dyno graphs of each kit (with their base tunes), to get a feel for their power bands.

blown_xa

This is explained in our thread, post #473

andrew_ptuning

IMPORTANT READ:

I was asked to chime in here about why we designed our turbo manifold the way we did and why the design is superior to others on the market. Having designed and/or tuned hundreds of different turbo platforms each year we know what works well and what doesn't.

We went through several designs before settling on the current production turbo manifold. An efficient turbo manifold is pointless unless it is coupled to a well designed, free-flowing downpipe. Any good turbo system cannot have one without the other, period. There's no sense in having the craziest looking turbo manifold when the turbo ultimately dumps into a downpipe that is welded on the the turbine outlet flange at a grossly cheated angle.

Think about it for a second. Once the exhaust gases are done spinning the turbo it needs to evacuate itself from the turbine housing as quickly and efficiently as possible. A well designed downpipe promotes much quicker spool-up, better transient response, and ultimately much better VE, which as we all know contributes to big power.

Now onto my main point about our turbo manifold design. If you look at the merge collector, it is highly offset to the driver's side of the engine compartment. We tried on center and slightly off center merge collectors first, but we were COMPLETELY unhappy with the compromise in the downpipe design.

There is simply not enough room to build a proper downpipe with the way the tC2 engine compartment is layed out. This is therefore THE REASON we went through so many different manifold designs. We needed to offset the turbo way over to the driver's side in order to build the perfect downpipe.

So again, those who are familiar with proper turbo system design.....look at why we do things the way we do. We feel the battery relocation is 100% necessary to achieve our goal of a "performance first" turbo design.

We didn't do this just to force you run an aftermarket battery or to make things more complex for ourselves or just because it looks JDM. We did it because it happens to be in our way, LOL. This refusal to compromise our design because of how the factory lays out their engine compartment is what sets ALL of our turbo systems apart from the others.

- PTUNING Tuner

andrew_ptuning

I will post this tomorrow.

Drew

Roller_Toaster

iTrader: (1)

^ I like this guy.

Sparky7

I wouldn't let the filter location get to you too much in your decision. It's an easy and rather inexpensive change if you find it necessary. Wait for dyno charts and boost curves or go visit a shop for a ride. Tuning costs will also be different, so ask.

slapdaddy

Descendants shop is very impressive. Plus they are very nice people. If you're from socal I would suggest stopping by.