frogbox, another signature comes to mind. That of Tomas. Something about mud wrestling with a pig.LOL It's apparent to me that scott17 just likes to hear himself talk. If he's as smart as he claims to be, he would be able to back up his claims on just how good those factory grounding systems are. (come on chop chop) Instead of just telling us we are wasting our time and money. Bottom line is we see an ACTUAL improvement so it doesn't matter one bit what others say PERIOD. Hope this isn't too much DRIVEL for ya scotty. Get to it and start backing up all your talk. We are waiting for some more of your infinite wisdom bro! We need freakin numbers....

 

Since when did the burden of proof lie with person with a person that is disputing the claim? You have your logic backwards. You are making the claim that the grounding kit is making an improvement in case you forgot. It is not the other way around where anyone is making the claim that it doesn't make an improvement.

Quite honestly, this really deserves no comment. I've been a member of numerous car forums and there have been many times where people have made mods detrimental to the performance of their car. They didn't realize it until their car had to meet the irrefutable facts of science, ie. dyno before and after results. All you have right now are some people that claim things like smoother idle, brighter headlights, etc. Well, science can measure that but there is absolutely zero proof that any of these things have happened. I come from the old school where I need to see unbiased, scientific proof before I buy performance mods. I've seen the placebo effect way too many times but I refuse to insult my intelligence letting the placebo have an effect on me.

The burden of proof is on YOU since YOU are the one making the claim. In all my cars, they have had high end audio systems. I've always dressed the engine bay with the finest power cabling (Phoenix Gold, Soundquest, Monster Cable, Audioquest), gold plated terminals, scraped every ground point. One on car I used 1/0 grounds. I did it all for dress up and I can tell you unequivocally that it made zero difference in idle, performance, headlight brightness, and even stereo sound quality. I was objective when I regrounded, I expected nothing and I got nothing in return. Maybe I was just pessimistic? I think not. The only car I never did this on is my NSX because I'm going to keep this car free of ricey, placebo mods.

 

Malibu rapper, we know it imroves stuff. I had over 5Kmiles on mine before I added the ground kit. Which means I knew how it was before and after. That's proof enough for me. The anti-grounding crew needs to show this so called data to us and prove we are wasting our time on grounding kits. Otherwise it's just talk.
I'm growing tired of this banging your head on the wall BS. Either put up or be quiet already. PLEASE!!!!!

 

You would be correct if we were talking about AC, but we are talking about DC here...

 

The way I see it, a grounding kit can't hurt. So even if it helps just a little it's a good thing. right

 

Dude, I'm not trying to be insulting but did you ever go to college? Google "burden of proof rests" and you will know who needs to provide the proof. I remember this intake that made a lot of noise and people swore up and down that their car was faster. Once it came time to dyno the intake, a bunch people found out that their torque and HP went down. That tells you how much you can trust a butt dyno and a wishful thinker.

 

LoL, do you thing dc travels through the wires and ac travels on the outside. Boy some people. Current is current. Just because it alternates doeen't change the fact that the electrons are moving. BTW most high volage power lines trasmiting long distances trasmit in DC. And guess what they are hollow!!!!! Rapper do some research. Please!!!!

 

Yeah, didn't u know? Dude, get in where you fit in, I thought this was common electrical knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_current

DC goes through the wire, AC tends to flow at the surface,I thought everyone knew that. Guess I was wrong.

 

Didn't have time for college. Had to work to put food on the table for the family. Wasn't lucky enough to have rich folks

In this case it rests on the nay sayers. Our actual results speak for our side. We have already seen the imrovements. YOU prove US wrong. Please???? If that is even possible. Good luck

 

I can feel that, that's why I didn't mean it as an insult, just a question. This is not something you learn in high school.

Your logic is flawed. The car came with stock ground wires. You claim it made and improvement -> Claim #1. We say it does not. If you prove Claim #1, then when we say that it doesn't, that becomes Claim #2. Saying that you saw improvement without benchmarks is not proof. I can say my Perrin Pulley made my car twice as fast and that is not proof. 50 people saying that does not prove what I say because I can pay 50 people off to say that. So until you prove Exhibit A, then we have no burden to provide proof.

 

Yes, but the improvements are subtle. And different than trying to prove something concrete like a pulley. You can't prove them in words. Its a visual thing (brighter headlights at night) and something you feel (smoother and more stable idle) and something you hear (cleaner sounding sterio). The results ARE the proof. I really can't explain it any clearer than that. If someone wants to dispute our findings I say go for it. It's now on you. simple I just give up. It's almost as if the ones that say gound kits are crap are just F'ing around.

 

The amount of light can be measured in lumens, or apparent brightness in color temperature. Sound quality and SPL with an RTA and SPL meter. You might not have the equipment, but certainly if these things were true, the manufacturer would invest in capturing the true effects. It is not proof until you have some hard numbers, word of mouth is often the farthest thing from the truth. Before these ground kits came to the mass market, I was doing it for show and I knew it was JUST for show. Because it changed nothing, from Honda to GM to Ford and back to Toyta, it made zero difference. You can almost say I invented the ground kit with my competitors. These ground kits you are buying are pieces of crap compared to what I put together. Hell, you guys are dealing with skinny wire, cheap conducters, mass produced crappy wire. I was putting together oxygen free, max stranded, super jacketed audiophile grade wire with the finest of materials. Sometimes even solid silver.

Ah this is all pointless, if u are happy with it, so be it. Don't let the science, facts, and experiments dissuade you. But you can save a lot of money by being scientific. If you don't have the science to back up your claims then just let it be, don't try to prove your point by hearsay. This thread is proof that neither side will win. I'm leaving this as is, let people decide what they want based on the "evidence" so far. It was fun, thanks for the discussion and sorry if I was ever insulting as I did not want to come off that way. I think I'm done with scionlife.com...

 

Not at all were you insulting. Unlike some that I will leave nameless. (you know who you are).
No need to leave SL. There is stuff to learn on here. Heck, I've been on here for almost 2 years and I am still learning stuff about these amazing little cars. I hope it never ends.
PS. I lost my Lumins gauge just the other day. Musta fell out of my pocket.

 

You don't seem to be learning much in my opinion. Kinda like teaching a 12th grade lesson to a 3rd grade class ................

 

Like the guy named Jethro who called some people "thick, uneducated' and a few other compliments? this coming from the guy who never made it to college.........

 

I think you know exactly what you are talking about and some of the "junior scientists" on board should be disregarded. Don't leave because of a few idiots, stay and enjoy some of us other idiots.

 

Rapper honestly read a book!! And answer me this if dc travels through a wire not on the surface, why are DC powerlines hollow? Riddle me that one? What a dolt!!!

 

Why aren't they multi-stranded? Riddle me that one.......

 

lol, they are. They are multi standed hollow wires I will find a cross-section to post

 

At least I can read. Never called anyone uneducated but you are thick (read stubborn and unwilling to bend or compromise)and lacking common sense. I'm sure the people that read this garbage will see you for what you are. If you are married, I feel sorry for your wife