NST Feeler Thread ... Now turned Group Buy Thread!
Senior Member
Fail, INC
SL Member
Scinergy
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 956
From: Kansas City, MO
I'll stand behind my purchase Mike. As I stated earlier, if the GB does not happen, I'll put together some more funds for the full price of both pieces. Just don't forget to mark me down for the crank + alternator since I placed the extra order for that.
So far, NST has been fantastic. I've seen their work and I've been impressed. Thanks for posting the update.
So far, NST has been fantastic. I've seen their work and I've been impressed. Thanks for posting the update.
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 140
From: St. Louis, MO
Thanks for the update Mike. I apologize if you found my comments offensive, but nobody accused you of trying to steal. All comments were just pointing out your lack of response for a 2 week period following the passing of the payment deadline. Its not a big deal, you obviously had higher priority things to attend to that we were unaware of. I too would like to purchase at full price if this GB dies.
UPDATE MAY 6, 2009
We expect to begin production early next week, and hope to have some pulleys available for you guys in about SIX weeks. Current ETA: Late June 2009.
Future updates will be provided on page 1 as we move along with production.
We expect to begin production early next week, and hope to have some pulleys available for you guys in about SIX weeks. Current ETA: Late June 2009.
Future updates will be provided on page 1 as we move along with production.
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 140
From: St. Louis, MO
A couple of great threads on NST pulleys and pulleys in general:
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=248746
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=122725
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=248746
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=122725
Originally Posted by Grant314
A couple of great threads on NST pulleys and pulleys in general:
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=248746
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=122725
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=248746
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=122725
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 140
From: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted by Grant314
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=61911
Thank you for posting that link.
And with regards to the discussion regarding harmonics and vibrations towards the end of that thread...
I would suggest reading through the thousands of customer reviews from people who have owned NST pulleys. Their real world experiences, comments, and feedback vary considerably from the theoretical text book arguments that some post on the forums.
Thousands of user reviews from NST customers... No cases of engine failure...
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=248746
http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4737
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/bolt-...g-pulleys.html
www.ScionLife.com
www.YarisWorld.com
www.8thCivic.com
www.XR-Underground.com
www.Club4AG.com
www.86garage.com
www.MicroImageOnline.com
www.Houston240SX.com
etc etc etc.
Furthermore,
I understand that your cars are a very large investment for all of you and I prefer that you be intelligent and informed about all your modifications. So here we go... Please take a few minutes to read everything I have posted here, as I worked hard on trying to give you a good explanation on the topic...
In the past many engines were externally balanced. There was an external balancer attached to the outside of the engine, on the crank snout, used to balance the engine externally. The crank pulley in such engines would then be attached to this balancer. Removal of this balancer is a bad idea. These balancers were most often used on large (6 to
V shaped engines of the domestic muscle car era.
Take a look at any modern (1980s and beyond) Honda, Toyota, Nissan, or other japanese inline 4 and you will find no such balancer. These engines are all internally balanced, and this process has improved even further since the late 1990s. So the topic of a BALANCER does not apply here.
What you will find on ALL engines is a harmonic damper. This is a small rubber band, litterally less than 2mm, less than 1/8th of an inch, thick that is built into the crank pulley. OEM crank pulleys are often called DAMPERS. Try placing an order for a crank pulley at your Toyota dealer and your invoice will read damper. This rubber is used to absorb something called NVH, noise/vibration/harshness. Suffice it to say, this rubber is actually not very good at performing its intended purpose after as little as a few thousand miles. What happens to rubber after a couple years of humidity, weather, snow, rain, etc? It often becomes brittle, hard, and crunchy. Can something with these properties actually absorb vibrations very well?
Many many NST customers, including people on your own forums, have reported smoother running engines with NST pulleys. Especially at idle. How is this possible if the rubber is such a vital and super important piece??? Perhaps the rubber is not as important as it is cracked up to be???
Furthermore....
On the topic of the rubber damper, engine vibrations, or possible threats resulting from elimination of this rubber piece...
On a relatively understressed near stock motor with bolt ons or low amounts of boost like what most of the people on this forum probably run, a solid pulley will not have any life threatening consiquences. The factory pulley with a 2mm (less than a 1/8th inch) damper is primarily there for wide band NVH (noise vibration harshness) supression from the engine and driveline. Removing the damper and replacing it with a solid pulley may lead to minor addtional NVH but will not harm the engine. In fact, most people claim their engines seem to run smoother with NST pulleys.
The engineering reasons are that most modern engines have a short, strong crank with, a relatively high natural frequency. The dangerous second harmonic that can cause damage occurs at an rpm that this sort of engine will never see, in the area above 10,000 rpm. Even the stock damper is not tuned for attinuation at this sort of rpm so the argument is somewhat of a moot point.
Now small engines that are pushing the limit with lots of revs, wimpy cranks, super long strokes, lots of boost and dwelling in the upper rpm ranges for long periods of time can benefit from a damper designed to deal with this sort of operation but our engine is not like this, and probably very few people with this motor on this forum push the envelope that hard. How many 1.5Liter, 400HP, 12,000RPM motors do we have on these forums?
As far as I can tell, our engine has a strong and stiff bottom end that is well built for our intended use. It has an internaly balanced crankshaft which is less like to break due to torsional vibration.
There are a lot of Toyota & Nissan guys who use underdrive crank pulleys in road racing series like NASA or SCCA. Road racing is much more punishing on an engine than other motorsports. The engine is subjected to run times lasting 23 to 45 minutes with the engine always in the upper ranges of its rpm limit. One race weekend is the equivlent of hundreds of 1/4 mile passes.
NST sponsors the first ever wheel to wheel Scion tC NASA Road Race car. This car has been using underdrive pulleys from NST with great results since day one.
NST also sponsors several drift cars participating in the professional US drift series, Fromula Drift and D1 Grand Prix. These cars have been using NST pulleys with no issues of any kind for the past few seasons.
We could go on and on...
Is a solid crank pulley harmless to all engines? No it is not. Small, super high reving engines, when modified way past the simple bolt on stages may have problems. These engines reach critcal harmonics, past the 10,000 rpm range, an rpm often reached by certain race engines.
A mildly modded inline six will most likely be fine but one subjected to high rpm for long periods of time (90% of its life) with lots of boost will probably suffer. In this case , the stock balancer/damper is probably not adequate either.
Some of the older american V8 engines are externaly balanced and it is critical not to use a solid hub pulley not designed for these applications, or damage to the engine could result.
Our engines and most around here do not fall into the above catagories. Rest assured that your engines will not blow up and die or have a reduced life in street and even racing use with these parts.
I would bet that every "expert" that tells you otherwise has little personal, practical, real world experience with the subject.
Again, I understand that your cars are a very large investment and that you depend on them as your daily means of transportation, so I do not take your questions personally. However, this is probably the tenth time I have addresed this on ScionLife. If I have to post this info once a month in this same thread, I will continue to do so. I do not take pride in building junk. No NST product is junk. No NST product is designed to cause you any harm or grief. I am not in business to sell junk. PERIOD.
Many thanks to those of you who have supported our brand and our products over the past few years. Good luck and have fun with all your projects!
I understand that your cars are a very large investment for all of you and I prefer that you be intelligent and informed about all your modifications. So here we go... Please take a few minutes to read everything I have posted here, as I worked hard on trying to give you a good explanation on the topic...
In the past many engines were externally balanced. There was an external balancer attached to the outside of the engine, on the crank snout, used to balance the engine externally. The crank pulley in such engines would then be attached to this balancer. Removal of this balancer is a bad idea. These balancers were most often used on large (6 to
V shaped engines of the domestic muscle car era.Take a look at any modern (1980s and beyond) Honda, Toyota, Nissan, or other japanese inline 4 and you will find no such balancer. These engines are all internally balanced, and this process has improved even further since the late 1990s. So the topic of a BALANCER does not apply here.
What you will find on ALL engines is a harmonic damper. This is a small rubber band, litterally less than 2mm, less than 1/8th of an inch, thick that is built into the crank pulley. OEM crank pulleys are often called DAMPERS. Try placing an order for a crank pulley at your Toyota dealer and your invoice will read damper. This rubber is used to absorb something called NVH, noise/vibration/harshness. Suffice it to say, this rubber is actually not very good at performing its intended purpose after as little as a few thousand miles. What happens to rubber after a couple years of humidity, weather, snow, rain, etc? It often becomes brittle, hard, and crunchy. Can something with these properties actually absorb vibrations very well?
Many many NST customers, including people on your own forums, have reported smoother running engines with NST pulleys. Especially at idle. How is this possible if the rubber is such a vital and super important piece??? Perhaps the rubber is not as important as it is cracked up to be???
Furthermore....
On the topic of the rubber damper, engine vibrations, or possible threats resulting from elimination of this rubber piece...
On a relatively understressed near stock motor with bolt ons or low amounts of boost like what most of the people on this forum probably run, a solid pulley will not have any life threatening consiquences. The factory pulley with a 2mm (less than a 1/8th inch) damper is primarily there for wide band NVH (noise vibration harshness) supression from the engine and driveline. Removing the damper and replacing it with a solid pulley may lead to minor addtional NVH but will not harm the engine. In fact, most people claim their engines seem to run smoother with NST pulleys.
The engineering reasons are that most modern engines have a short, strong crank with, a relatively high natural frequency. The dangerous second harmonic that can cause damage occurs at an rpm that this sort of engine will never see, in the area above 10,000 rpm. Even the stock damper is not tuned for attinuation at this sort of rpm so the argument is somewhat of a moot point.
Now small engines that are pushing the limit with lots of revs, wimpy cranks, super long strokes, lots of boost and dwelling in the upper rpm ranges for long periods of time can benefit from a damper designed to deal with this sort of operation but our engine is not like this, and probably very few people with this motor on this forum push the envelope that hard. How many 1.5Liter, 400HP, 12,000RPM motors do we have on these forums?
As far as I can tell, our engine has a strong and stiff bottom end that is well built for our intended use. It has an internaly balanced crankshaft which is less like to break due to torsional vibration.
There are a lot of Toyota & Nissan guys who use underdrive crank pulleys in road racing series like NASA or SCCA. Road racing is much more punishing on an engine than other motorsports. The engine is subjected to run times lasting 23 to 45 minutes with the engine always in the upper ranges of its rpm limit. One race weekend is the equivlent of hundreds of 1/4 mile passes.
NST sponsors the first ever wheel to wheel Scion tC NASA Road Race car. This car has been using underdrive pulleys from NST with great results since day one.
NST also sponsors several drift cars participating in the professional US drift series, Fromula Drift and D1 Grand Prix. These cars have been using NST pulleys with no issues of any kind for the past few seasons.
We could go on and on...
Is a solid crank pulley harmless to all engines? No it is not. Small, super high reving engines, when modified way past the simple bolt on stages may have problems. These engines reach critcal harmonics, past the 10,000 rpm range, an rpm often reached by certain race engines.
A mildly modded inline six will most likely be fine but one subjected to high rpm for long periods of time (90% of its life) with lots of boost will probably suffer. In this case , the stock balancer/damper is probably not adequate either.
Some of the older american V8 engines are externaly balanced and it is critical not to use a solid hub pulley not designed for these applications, or damage to the engine could result.
Our engines and most around here do not fall into the above catagories. Rest assured that your engines will not blow up and die or have a reduced life in street and even racing use with these parts.
I would bet that every "expert" that tells you otherwise has little personal, practical, real world experience with the subject.
Again, I understand that your cars are a very large investment and that you depend on them as your daily means of transportation, so I do not take your questions personally. However, this is probably the tenth time I have addresed this on ScionLife. If I have to post this info once a month in this same thread, I will continue to do so. I do not take pride in building junk. No NST product is junk. No NST product is designed to cause you any harm or grief. I am not in business to sell junk. PERIOD.
Many thanks to those of you who have supported our brand and our products over the past few years. Good luck and have fun with all your projects!
Originally Posted by Rickman223
Whats the deal on this? I kind of want one but ive read production has already started. Any chance i could possibly get one after?
We have built a few extra pieces (red and gray) and anyone else who may be interested in placing an order for one of these pulleys can do so on our website...
http://www.nonstoptuning.com/pKitToySciXB.htm
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,099
From: ...Lost Somewhere in Time
Mike, if it's possible, could you post whenever the pulleys arrive. Rather than ship mine, I'd be happy to swing by and pick it up. NST is not too far from my work. That should save you a couple of $$.
