1ZZ/2ZZ Engine Scion xD
09-02-2007, 08:07 AM
#21
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it would be an absolute waste of money to take a new car and swap an engine into it.
Here we go with the engine swaps!
Bottom line for anyone considering any type of engine swap: Yes, it can be done. It's just a matter of how much money you want to spend. The thing is, most of us just aren't interested in spending $80 000 on a $15 000 car.
Bottom line for anyone considering any type of engine swap: Yes, it can be done. It's just a matter of how much money you want to spend. The thing is, most of us just aren't interested in spending $80 000 on a $15 000 car.
GTRasta: you're young and have a lot to learn about the world of cars.
of course scion is about being unique, but why waste 10k for an engine swap to have a sub par car and engine. the 2zz is not exactly the best engine performance wise. after the 10k you would spend you would up with a 25-26k car which has no value when you could get a better car performance wise for that money stock.
wow..you guys are nuts. this guy is giving you info and your _____ing about it! the xB1 guys are drooling over any idea of a motorswap.
and some explain to me how an engine swap would cost 80k when the the car that i came from was under 20k new?!
you could et an engine out of wrecked celica GTS for less than grand. believe me i looked into it.
and some explain to me how an engine swap would cost 80k when the the car that i came from was under 20k new?!
you could et an engine out of wrecked celica GTS for less than grand. believe me i looked into it.
Here's the thing, that number that you all have been complaining about - $80 000 - I pulled it out of my bum. That's right, it was totally made up. See the following for an explanation:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hyperbole
Now that we've got the language issue worked out, let's focus on the point that remains. If you want to put any engine at all in the xD, go right ahead and do it. I, for one, will applaud your efforts and congratulate you on your astounding success.
However, you must understand that we see rather too many folks come onto this forum with similar aspirations that turn out to be no more than fools who have little to no idea what they are talking about, much less how to implement their grand plans. Therefore, please don't take it as an insult when we suggest that you show us, rather than tell us, or when we simply shrug off your latest attempt to impress us as mere banter. Really, it's not personal.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hyperbole
Now that we've got the language issue worked out, let's focus on the point that remains. If you want to put any engine at all in the xD, go right ahead and do it. I, for one, will applaud your efforts and congratulate you on your astounding success.
However, you must understand that we see rather too many folks come onto this forum with similar aspirations that turn out to be no more than fools who have little to no idea what they are talking about, much less how to implement their grand plans. Therefore, please don't take it as an insult when we suggest that you show us, rather than tell us, or when we simply shrug off your latest attempt to impress us as mere banter. Really, it's not personal.
This is all he is saying in a nutshell
A) Buying the motor (2k+)
B) Taking out your motor (At least a day of your time)
C) Fabricating the wiring so that it all connects properly and/or buying a new wiring harness.
D) PUtting in your motor
E) supercharge/turbocharging it (2k+)
F)Upgrading your ECU and tuning it. (Probably about another 700 depending on the shop)
This is ALOT more work then it's worth. Unless you know how to rip out engines and tune cars this is not what you should do. IMHO this is a very stupid idea.
A) Buying the motor (2k+)
B) Taking out your motor (At least a day of your time)
C) Fabricating the wiring so that it all connects properly and/or buying a new wiring harness.
D) PUtting in your motor
E) supercharge/turbocharging it (2k+)
F)Upgrading your ECU and tuning it. (Probably about another 700 depending on the shop)
This is ALOT more work then it's worth. Unless you know how to rip out engines and tune cars this is not what you should do. IMHO this is a very stupid idea.
you say popular swap... i say niche market.
09-02-2007, 04:10 PM
#22
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IMHO its great to see that a possible engine transplant can be done, but its a bit too early in the xDs market to consider it. I dont know too many people who would buy a low end car, take a perfectly good and new engine out only to replace it with something a little more beefy.. All this considering you just spent 14K on the car, then to turn around and sink another 10K into it. Only to get bad gas mileage .... have Gremilns that wont be covered under factory warrenty or be force to sell at a loss cause no one wants a newer car with an engine transplant.
Can it be done, sure. Im sure with the right amount of money you can cram a Viper V10 into a 1st gen box.
Can it be done, sure. Im sure with the right amount of money you can cram a Viper V10 into a 1st gen box.
09-02-2007, 04:35 PM
#23
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Whiskey, pull the tampon out. I never slammed anyone for wanting to swap an engine. I love the idea of a sleeper car. All I was saying, ___, is that it isn't by any means a popular thing to do on ANY car. Popular in the Niche market of engine swapping, sure, but most people would never consider doing this to his or her car.
And one thing you need to understand, while this might be a Scion enthusiast website, the whole basis of Scion stretches between customization and ECONOMY. Most people who buy an economy car do so because of the price/features ratio. If people had the money to buy an 18K car and swap an engine in it (let's say another 7-8K), these individuals would most likely just buy a more expensive, faster car.
*Swapping the engine is going to kill about all of your warranty.
*You will need to know how to troubleshoot engine problems because no engine swap works 100% right off the bat.
*You will need another car while yours is in the shop (or your garage) getting the engine swapped/fixing issues.
*It's expensive as hell, esp. since you can buy a working, used sports car for the same price or less.
*On top of everything, if you replace a Scion xD/xB1/xA engine with something significantly more powerful (ie. something worth swapping), you are going to need a transmission to handle the power. A new list of possible nightmares...
Now, with this in mind, and remembering that you are on an econobox enthusiast website, is it really that surprising that so many people would question an engine swap?
And one thing you need to understand, while this might be a Scion enthusiast website, the whole basis of Scion stretches between customization and ECONOMY. Most people who buy an economy car do so because of the price/features ratio. If people had the money to buy an 18K car and swap an engine in it (let's say another 7-8K), these individuals would most likely just buy a more expensive, faster car.
*Swapping the engine is going to kill about all of your warranty.
*You will need to know how to troubleshoot engine problems because no engine swap works 100% right off the bat.
*You will need another car while yours is in the shop (or your garage) getting the engine swapped/fixing issues.
*It's expensive as hell, esp. since you can buy a working, used sports car for the same price or less.
*On top of everything, if you replace a Scion xD/xB1/xA engine with something significantly more powerful (ie. something worth swapping), you are going to need a transmission to handle the power. A new list of possible nightmares...
Now, with this in mind, and remembering that you are on an econobox enthusiast website, is it really that surprising that so many people would question an engine swap?
09-02-2007, 11:58 PM
#24
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Whiskey needs to take a chill pill and realize not EVERYBODY wants to waste their TIME/MONEY on an engine swap in a car that MOST people use just for transportation. I think hondaforums.com would like somebody like him.
09-03-2007, 12:26 AM
#25
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wow.. i thought this site was better then some of the post i have just read. So one just sharing some info on a possible swap for thos that are interested. it's a shame, if you don't think its a good idea for you, then just don't comment. leave the post for those that are interested and want to learn more.
this thread just reminded me what I don't go to alot for car forums anymore.
this thread just reminded me what I don't go to alot for car forums anymore.
09-03-2007, 03:13 PM
#28
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Just as how the 2zz swap is best for the track/autox MR2-Spyder , this would be best for you show guys. And for those of you who doubt the 2zz, look at what it put down on the stock tranny:
First came this:
http://www.newcelica.org/forums/show...35#post3842435
Then came this ( OMGWTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ):
http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=255200
Now we're starting to get somewhere. And if you think the hp/torque crossover is fishy, look again at the scaling. It's actually happening at a few thousand rpm's lower than what you see there. The turbo fully spools at 4,000 rpm.
First came this:
http://www.newcelica.org/forums/show...35#post3842435
Originally Posted by monkeywrench
The poor car has been neglected all summer because we've been so busy. I've hired on a couple more guys to help with the work load so we're finally caught up enough on customer cars to do some more work on ol' orange.
We've got a manual trans in the car temporarily to make tuning easier. The engine is one of our standard race engines, nothing fancy. In fact this engine was built for a customer but before it could be shipped the customer decided he wanted a stroker instead. Worked out for everyone I guess.
The setup:
2zz 1.8L non-stroker
Stock 6-spd with Quaife
MWR RPS ultimate single disc
Mahle pistons 9.0:1
Crower rods
MWR bearings
MWR valves and springs
GT35R turbo
1000cc MWR injectors
MWR fuel pump
MWR FPR and return line (plus upgraded feed line)
MWR ARP studs
4" exhaust
Modified AEM EMS with MWR jumper harness
Stock intake manifold and throttle body
Stock head gasket
I finished the pump gas tune on it tonight. I ran it up to 24psi on 93 octane, nice conservative tune. The car made around 400 ft-lb at the wheels and a peak of 560hp to the wheels. It sounds a lot meaner than the red one does because of the larger turbo. The 4" exhaust allows the turbo to fully spool by 4000rpm which really makes this setup really usable.
Tomorrow I'll turn up the boost and dump in some race gas. The turbo should be good for close to 700whp- we'll see. I'll get some pics and dyno charts posted Tuesday.
We've got a manual trans in the car temporarily to make tuning easier. The engine is one of our standard race engines, nothing fancy. In fact this engine was built for a customer but before it could be shipped the customer decided he wanted a stroker instead. Worked out for everyone I guess.
The setup:
2zz 1.8L non-stroker
Stock 6-spd with Quaife
MWR RPS ultimate single disc
Mahle pistons 9.0:1
Crower rods
MWR bearings
MWR valves and springs
GT35R turbo
1000cc MWR injectors
MWR fuel pump
MWR FPR and return line (plus upgraded feed line)
MWR ARP studs
4" exhaust
Modified AEM EMS with MWR jumper harness
Stock intake manifold and throttle body
Stock head gasket
I finished the pump gas tune on it tonight. I ran it up to 24psi on 93 octane, nice conservative tune. The car made around 400 ft-lb at the wheels and a peak of 560hp to the wheels. It sounds a lot meaner than the red one does because of the larger turbo. The 4" exhaust allows the turbo to fully spool by 4000rpm which really makes this setup really usable.
Tomorrow I'll turn up the boost and dump in some race gas. The turbo should be good for close to 700whp- we'll see. I'll get some pics and dyno charts posted Tuesday.
http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=255200
Originally Posted by monkeywrench
I dumped in some 105 octane unleaded and turned the boost up today.
Looks like we'll be shifting this one around 9k.
I did run the boost up a bit higher than 30 but the power increases were small. I've still got the 0.63 turbine housing in there for spoolup with the auto so I think that is causing some backpressure over 30psi. No surprise there. It will make 20psi by 4k but as you see in the graph it's a little laggier than that if you just step on the pedal when the pull starts.
With a better breathing turbo setup this engine will easily handle 35+ psi. For now though we need to finish up some details and get the car to the track. I can't wait.
Looks like we'll be shifting this one around 9k.
I did run the boost up a bit higher than 30 but the power increases were small. I've still got the 0.63 turbine housing in there for spoolup with the auto so I think that is causing some backpressure over 30psi. No surprise there. It will make 20psi by 4k but as you see in the graph it's a little laggier than that if you just step on the pedal when the pull starts.
With a better breathing turbo setup this engine will easily handle 35+ psi. For now though we need to finish up some details and get the car to the track. I can't wait.
09-04-2007, 12:52 PM
#30
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Wishful thinking, of course, but I still love the idea of the 2ZZ small hatch like a yaris or the xD. The idea of normal city cycle car with a potential of 180hp if you let it unwind is very tempting. Has to be factory, though.
09-04-2007, 01:58 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by zoltiz
Wishful thinking, of course, but I still love the idea of the 2ZZ small hatch like a yaris or the xD. The idea of normal city cycle car with a potential of 180hp if you let it unwind is very tempting. Has to be factory, though.
09-04-2007, 02:06 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by zoltiz
Wishful thinking, of course, but I still love the idea of the 2ZZ small hatch like a yaris or the xD. The idea of normal city cycle car with a potential of 180hp if you let it unwind is very tempting. Has to be factory, though.
09-04-2007, 02:16 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by emptystreets130
Originally Posted by zoltiz
Wishful thinking, of course, but I still love the idea of the 2ZZ small hatch like a yaris or the xD. The idea of normal city cycle car with a potential of 180hp if you let it unwind is very tempting. Has to be factory, though.
09-09-2007, 08:52 PM
#35
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The 2zz is only being used by Lotus now. The emission ***** have claimed it to be to filthy for Toyota and Pontiac (Vibe GT) to use anymore.
But it's still a wayyy better platform to get serious power out of.
But it's still a wayyy better platform to get serious power out of.
09-10-2007, 05:17 AM
#36
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just drive + enjoy your new xD.
The dude(s) that insist/offer/plant the seed to potentially mod your ride later- whether it cost $2K- $5K ... whatever. Hey, if you have the money to burn... and want to do it, go for it. At the same time, its these people that want your business... buy aftermarket products from them, and feed the whole frenzy of "aftermarket".
Yes, to each his own ... but ultimately, have fun at what ever you do- and don't get in debt- and over your head while doing it!
The dude(s) that insist/offer/plant the seed to potentially mod your ride later- whether it cost $2K- $5K ... whatever. Hey, if you have the money to burn... and want to do it, go for it. At the same time, its these people that want your business... buy aftermarket products from them, and feed the whole frenzy of "aftermarket".
Yes, to each his own ... but ultimately, have fun at what ever you do- and don't get in debt- and over your head while doing it!
09-14-2007, 12:56 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by ikonXone
sure it can be done, but my point is why on a new car?
So yes, people do it to brand new 40-50k cars even.
09-14-2007, 01:55 PM
#38
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Yah. There are a handful of K20 swapped Lotus's out there. Heck, MANY of the Scion tC boys have already voided their warranty by slapping in a turbo. Are those Scion owners idiots as well?
The 2zz swap is just a suggestion for those either considering going turbo, or wanting to go on the nice show car route.
The 2zz swap is just a suggestion for those either considering going turbo, or wanting to go on the nice show car route.
