Well... how's 190hp vs. 160hp fair then huh? I'd say the last generation of Si (160hp) vs. the tC is fair.

 

and if you think the tC has more torque and it's no fair and such and such.. Then when it finally becomes fair, both cars will be running EQUALLY no matter what and it's NO FUN. That's why we have the aftermarket parts or accessories offered by dealerships to modify our rides to see who can do better. It's a matter of who can modify better with the sources available to them.

 

The cars in question are a stock 2000 Civic SI vs Scion tC. Some people just don't read and are posting info. on the EP SI instead of the EK. It's a drivers race.

 

I dont think your getting what im saying here...

One you cant say the si's dont have potential.... I got a friend boosting 8 lbs on his 03 si he runs 12's.... so please dont try and play the potential card.... cuz honda has and always will have potential....

 

THE EK SI vs tC is not a drivers race. stock to stock EK SI will WIN Go look up the EK SI 1/4 mile times please....

 

Blah blah... I traded in my 2000 SI for my tC. I enjoy driving both... and the gas mileage is way better on the SI (was getting around 32 mpg every tank... but I actually enjoy driving the tC more. As far as "beating" it... in a 1/4 mile I've lost to my buddy in his 99 SI twice and won once... he tho has parada spec2 tires... a lot stickier than my POS BFG stock tires. I tend to churp to full out "burn" thru first gear. Once i replace these cheap a$$ tires. I'm sure we'll go again. I'll be sure to post vids and get some 1/4 mile slips.

(ps: yes i do have some mods, so I guess I wont fall into your "stock vs. stock" but he has the same mods... cai/CAT back exhaust/17inch rims w/paradas)

AND... as much of a Honda fan as I am... you would think the new SI coming out with its 197 hp would do a lot better than .1 second quicker to 60... but that's just me?? 7.3 NEW SI... 7.4 2005 tC

and here's the link if you all are gonna be like "WHERE's the source?!?" haha
New SI

My one jealous thing about the new Si is the LSD :-( Wish we had one.... grrr... oh well.

And as for the 1/4 mile times for the 99-2000 Si says 0-60 7.2 and 1/4: 15.7 same as 2005 tC...Car and Driver observed 1/4
1/4 mile times

 

racing a new si is like racing a rsx-s we lose both times

 

You would think so.... but the new Si... even with the 37 hp improvement over the 99-2000 Si is actually slower to 60 than the 1.6 DOHC from before... makes ya go HMMMM....

 

You just won't give up will you. If the Tc came in different levels, such as a TC-S for the supercharger. That supercharger version would be stock. The Si from factory is a Stock Civic Si. That is what this was about. The Civic Si vs. Scion TC. Not Civic Si vs. Supercharged TC. Your comments and point arguements are ridiculous and make no sense.

Cya

 

Also, some of you are just picking words i've said and mixing it around. "Fair" doesn't mean numbers have to be a match, obviously. I never said. So don't put words in my mouth.

Stock TC vs Stock Civic Si is fair when you compare it to a F/I Tc vs STOCK Si. Some of you are trying so hard to prove a point you aren't making sense at all.

Everyone that has actually ready fully my comments, know what i mean. So try re-reading before you post "Well hows 190hp vs 160hp fair"....

Cya

EDIT: Not intended to insult anyone..But get with the program people.

 

I would say fair is price vs price. A 20,000 dollar tC vs a 20,000 dollar Si .. I think winner may be the tC.

But if we're talking about buying a used 2000 Si vs a brand new tC, the 20,000 dollar Si has it hands down. This past Si is t3h suck and marks a blotch on Si history (as far as I'm concerned.)

In anycase, the Si is a performance oriented car while the touring coupe known as the tC is a touring coupe with a sporty flair. Advantage, I think, goes to Si.

But I still like the tC better.

 

You totally missed the entire reasoning behind The scion brand not having trim levels. Its so each respective buyer can customize thier vehicle with the options they want. If Honda were to do that with the Vic. It would be like "I want the larger K engine, but I can do with out the SI seats blah blah blah interior stuff. For the buyer to Pay for what they want, and not to have to pay for a Trim wich includes parts they really don't want. So as far as I am concerned. ANYTHING from the factory options on a Scion is STOCK. and the stock S/C tC is a good match for the Stock Si.

 

[quote="TimmyT"]You totally missed the entire reasoning behind The scion brand not having trim levels. Its so each respective buyer can customize thier vehicle with the options they want. If Honda were to do that with the Vic. It would be like "I want the larger K engine, but I can do with out the SI seats blah blah blah interior stuff. For the buyer to Pay for what they want, and not to have to pay for a Trim wich includes parts they really don't want. So as far as I am concerned. ANYTHING from the factory options on a Scion is STOCK. and the stock S/C tC is a good match for the Stock Si.[/quote

Was i talking about Scion? No, i was talking about honda. The motor stock is N/A 2.4L. Correct? Correct. TRD Supercharger added on becomes a boosted motor. Nevermind the car. Stock=N/A With TRD Supercharger = Boosted. Therefore, its not stock.

Also, For the 2000 Si i have seen every review run 15.2-15.5 seconds 1/4. With the TC, its always 15.8+. So with that, for the 2000 Si it wouldn't be impossible to beat it with a Tc. However, very unlikely with equal drivers.

Cya

 

Now i agree, a boosted Tc vs. new Si would be a good match. However, i still stand behind. Boosted vs Boosted N/a vs N/a when you are talking about two very alike yet very different cars.

Of course if this was a corvette vs. a boosted Tc that would make it more of a "fair" run. Although it wouldn't be the TRD s/c that would make that a fun race.

But as this was originally about, Stock for Stock. A n/a motor boosted is not stock. Regardless of who puts out the S/C or T/C. I'm sorry you disagree with me but its fact.

Cya

 

Listen Kid. So a S/C tC isn't stock. Cause in this case stock means Standard. NOW i am forced to repeat myself. If Stock means standard.. then a Civic Si isn't stock, because it doesn't have the STANDARD equipment of a Civic. The Civic Si is a Trim of the civic. Even the term Stock car. revolves around the chasis. I can get yah a definition if you would like.So it is completely fair to compare the S/C tC to a Civic SI, because they are still in the same category of vehicle. There are plenty of vehicles that have F/I counterparts that are stock. For one.. You have the 2005 Mustang Saleen n/a, and the Supercharged Saleen. Now I consider both of those vehicles stock. There is the Hemi Magnum.. and the regular magnum. I consider them BOTH stock because nothing aftermarket was done to either of those vehicles out of the factory. There is the 300 series.. and the C being a Hemi. They are all stock, cause they all maintain OEM parts. Grow up.

 

Honestly, you aren't making very much sense.

If a 300C is a stock car than why isn't a Civic Si?

The Si is a factory performance car. It isn't built into the Si at the port or anything close to that. Stock doesn't mean standard so much as from the factory. Standard is.. standard.

The s/c doesn't come standard but the 2AZ does come standard with the tC. THe Si comes standard with the K20A. I don't see where you are getting your ideas.

I can't even mount a proper discussion because I can't even understand your point!


Would you consider a Camry XLE a stock car? Would it be fair to compare a Camry XLE to an Accord V6 (non ex) turbo? Actually, is the V6 camry or Accord even stock?

 

http://automobiles.honda.com/models/...i&Category=ALL

ya i found the same and + i know about the ep3.

yes it has shorter gears but a higher top speed do to the 7 rpm redline.

statistically the cars are pretty much even. the TC putting more pwoer to the wheels and more TQ but has extra weight to cancel the affect.

the EP3 has VTEC but there VTEC valves are only on teh intake and not the exhaust portion which is why the car is so under powered.

i use to go out to teh races.

i've beaten SI's they have beaten me. there are to many factors in deciding who is teh winner but all i know is the winner is no more than 5ft ahead. from personal experience

 

I'm glad you are forced to repeat yourself, because now i have to. Civic Si is what we are comparing the TC to. The Civic Si is the performance version of the Civic, yes. However, a stock Civic Si means: No aftermarket mods. Now, Scion Tc Stock: No Aftermarket Mods, No TRD s/c. Why no S/C? Just because its available through TRD does not mean it automatically goes in the "stock" catagory. The 2az in stock form, as i've said probably five times already, is not supercharged. Therefore, adding any sort of boost or spray cannot be counted as "stock".
Would you consider a greddy turbocharged Tc stock? Of course not. The only difference between that and the TRD Supercharger is the fact Toyota their name on it. ONLY difference. Just because Toyota puts their name on it, does not mean its stock. Stock means from the factory. Civic Si is from the factory. We aren't talking about "standard civic vs. standard tc".

I'm surprised they haven't locked the thread yet. But because we are keeping it in the "topic" they probably wont. Which is cool, i have no problem with it...Gives me something to do.

Learn the difference between Standard and Stock and we can continue our debate!

Cya

 

Yeah, thats the only issue with honda motors. However, once the Si (since we are talking about the si here) enters vtec it becomes alive and is really a pretty quick car from the factory. Responds amazing to just bolt ons, especially top end.

Cya

 

As promised here is the video of the tC beating the 03 SI

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player....term=scion&p=0

Dont ask me what the mods are on the tC because i do not know if there are any and it says the SI is stock