For those of you having issues with your paint, read this!
Member
SL Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 83
From: Buffalo, NY
YEAH HOW DID IT GO, IM DYING TO KNOW. I just saw this forum now, i was gonna tell u, that u should of gotten a lawyer. Just for intimidation. EEh whatever, just a thought. well i hope to God that some good came out of this arbitration. Maybe this case will be one that will effect all scion drivers, or the future of the paint on all toyotas. I hope so. well let us no. :-)
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 37
From: O-Town
So the car has been ordered and now I have this to look forward to.
My dad works for multiple car companies as part of their warranty claims investigation departments. The biggest claim is paint. He will tell all of you that a chip from an object is not covered and is deemed normal wear and tear.
The circles, bubbles, and peeling are defects and will be covered if you take the car in. Rust is only covered in certain areas... if you live in snow or near the beach... the adjuster will say its normal.
He says Toyota tends to be reasonable with their paint claims and you need to call your dealership and have it looked at as soon as possible. In most arbitrations, he goes on behalf of the car company. If he saw the evidence like on here... he would be in our favor.
My dad works for multiple car companies as part of their warranty claims investigation departments. The biggest claim is paint. He will tell all of you that a chip from an object is not covered and is deemed normal wear and tear.
The circles, bubbles, and peeling are defects and will be covered if you take the car in. Rust is only covered in certain areas... if you live in snow or near the beach... the adjuster will say its normal.
He says Toyota tends to be reasonable with their paint claims and you need to call your dealership and have it looked at as soon as possible. In most arbitrations, he goes on behalf of the car company. If he saw the evidence like on here... he would be in our favor.
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,408
From: North Royalton, OH
kinda sucks, i don't have any defects yet, but i looked at my car in the sun today. it's got swirls in the clearcoat. i didn't cause them, because i don't swirl anything when i was my car, and they are in an area that wouldn't be worth swirling motion anyways, right above the windows in the paint, but they are all over.
reason why i have them, they washed my car at the dealership before they gave it to me, they don't have a touchfree car wash...
reason why i have them, they washed my car at the dealership before they gave it to me, they don't have a touchfree car wash...
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 946
From: Ashburn, VA
!! Update !!
The hearing went well yesterday.. the arbitrator was an older gentleman who was very nice and seemed to actually care about what I had to say. The Toyota rep was decent as well, a bit rude at times but she was just trying to prove her point I suppose. Here's how it went down..
1) We all sat down.. myself, the arbitrator, the Toyota rep and the Leesburg Toyota manager in a conference room.
2) I was told to present my case- which I did.
- Logs upon logs from SL showing what a widespread issue this paint is
- Statement from body shop describing "excessive paint chipping and fade spots beneath paint resulting in the need for a repaint of front end of the car.. unusual for a car of such age."
- Pages of TSB's and "recalls" or cases handled by auto manufacturers in which paint was found to be faulty for chipping or peeling and having been applied improperly- dealer agreed to repaint/rebuy the car. This was the case for the Mazda RX-7, many of the Dodge Rams and countless Fords throughout the years.
- Logs from SL where two different Scion dealers confirm tC paint colors SSM and IIP will be changed to two different paint codes (same colors however) for the '06 lineup.
- Statement from myself somewhat along the lines of "I am a Marketing major and we have studied the Scion brand. Scion's target market is the youth of this country. The goal of the Scion brand is to get younger Americans to essentially buy in to the Toyota market, and eventually work their way up to Lexus. I feel that based on my experiences with the brand and speaking with many others about their experiences as well, that Toyota is not treating these young adults with the courtesy and respect they deserve. There is an obvious paint problem on these cars and there is a fine line where Toyota must ask themselves if the paint chipping, although clearly stated as not being covered under warranty, becomes an issue that is so bad and so obvious that it must be dealt with in one way or another. I for one can most confidently say that unless several major factors change I will not be a repeat Toyota buyer and will do my best to keep everyone I know from owning one. I understand that impact chips are not covered under warranty- what I'm saying is that when it comes into question that there is a problem with the paint at hand and as a result the paint is being ruined so quickly there is apparently a problem, and suffice it to say Toyota is only alienting current and potential buyers by dealing with the problems in such a brash manner."
.... I went on about other issues but I could seriously write a book about this and don't feel the need to waste all of your time.
The Toyota rep didn't have much of a case other than that "chips aren't covered under warranty" and she brought in a picture that diagrammed a common chip but looked more like an amoeba or some sort of parasite under a microscopic lens.. didn't do much to help her either. She tried to say that all the other proof I'd brought in of past paint "recalls" from other manufacturers was not relevant because they were "not Toyota".. she obviously missed the entire point there.. (I was starting to wonder how bright this lady actually was..)
She then tried to dismiss all the logs I'd brought in from SL, saying they were merely conversations between people. However, I told her if Toyota cared at all about their customers they would do well to read those logs and understand that there is more of a problem than they care to admit. Furthermore "blog" sites are becoming a major factor in companies' decisions.. there have been several articles on the matter this year alone in magazines such as Time and Newsweek. Finally, she of course had no idea and no comment about the paint code changes, and upon inspection of the car itself brought out a magnetic paint thickness meter which you stick on the hood and pull up really quicky.. its supposed to give an approximate reading of the thickness of the paint, she said it should be anywhere from 4-6.5 mils. She said it appeared my paint's thickness was around 5.5 mils. I couldn't even see the numbers because you had to pull the meter up so quickly.. I think she confused the arbitrator a bit as well. I managed to comment that the meter in no way shape or form could test to see if the clearcoat or paint was applied or mixed properly, that it didn't really show much at all. She responded it was merely a "general measure" of the paint's thickness.
At any rate, I feel I did all I could and presented the strongest case possible without the aid of legal counsel- which would have been ridiculous for me to do seeing as it would cost me more to get a lawyer than to repaint the front end of my car. The arbitrator said he would be making his decision in the next 1-10 days and I will be getting a letter from NCDS with the ruling. It's hard to say at this point whether they will find in my favor or not; the scope of this case is large and very widespread and could potentially have a lot of repercussions for Toyota if they do find in my favor. Needless to say I won't be shocked and destroyed if they don't. All I can say is that I tried my best and brought it to their immediate attention that there is a large problem with the paint on these vehicles, whether or not they choose to admit it.
The hearing went well yesterday.. the arbitrator was an older gentleman who was very nice and seemed to actually care about what I had to say. The Toyota rep was decent as well, a bit rude at times but she was just trying to prove her point I suppose. Here's how it went down..
1) We all sat down.. myself, the arbitrator, the Toyota rep and the Leesburg Toyota manager in a conference room.
2) I was told to present my case- which I did.
- Logs upon logs from SL showing what a widespread issue this paint is
- Statement from body shop describing "excessive paint chipping and fade spots beneath paint resulting in the need for a repaint of front end of the car.. unusual for a car of such age."
- Pages of TSB's and "recalls" or cases handled by auto manufacturers in which paint was found to be faulty for chipping or peeling and having been applied improperly- dealer agreed to repaint/rebuy the car. This was the case for the Mazda RX-7, many of the Dodge Rams and countless Fords throughout the years.
- Logs from SL where two different Scion dealers confirm tC paint colors SSM and IIP will be changed to two different paint codes (same colors however) for the '06 lineup.
- Statement from myself somewhat along the lines of "I am a Marketing major and we have studied the Scion brand. Scion's target market is the youth of this country. The goal of the Scion brand is to get younger Americans to essentially buy in to the Toyota market, and eventually work their way up to Lexus. I feel that based on my experiences with the brand and speaking with many others about their experiences as well, that Toyota is not treating these young adults with the courtesy and respect they deserve. There is an obvious paint problem on these cars and there is a fine line where Toyota must ask themselves if the paint chipping, although clearly stated as not being covered under warranty, becomes an issue that is so bad and so obvious that it must be dealt with in one way or another. I for one can most confidently say that unless several major factors change I will not be a repeat Toyota buyer and will do my best to keep everyone I know from owning one. I understand that impact chips are not covered under warranty- what I'm saying is that when it comes into question that there is a problem with the paint at hand and as a result the paint is being ruined so quickly there is apparently a problem, and suffice it to say Toyota is only alienting current and potential buyers by dealing with the problems in such a brash manner."
.... I went on about other issues but I could seriously write a book about this and don't feel the need to waste all of your time.
The Toyota rep didn't have much of a case other than that "chips aren't covered under warranty" and she brought in a picture that diagrammed a common chip but looked more like an amoeba or some sort of parasite under a microscopic lens.. didn't do much to help her either. She tried to say that all the other proof I'd brought in of past paint "recalls" from other manufacturers was not relevant because they were "not Toyota".. she obviously missed the entire point there.. (I was starting to wonder how bright this lady actually was..)
She then tried to dismiss all the logs I'd brought in from SL, saying they were merely conversations between people. However, I told her if Toyota cared at all about their customers they would do well to read those logs and understand that there is more of a problem than they care to admit. Furthermore "blog" sites are becoming a major factor in companies' decisions.. there have been several articles on the matter this year alone in magazines such as Time and Newsweek. Finally, she of course had no idea and no comment about the paint code changes, and upon inspection of the car itself brought out a magnetic paint thickness meter which you stick on the hood and pull up really quicky.. its supposed to give an approximate reading of the thickness of the paint, she said it should be anywhere from 4-6.5 mils. She said it appeared my paint's thickness was around 5.5 mils. I couldn't even see the numbers because you had to pull the meter up so quickly.. I think she confused the arbitrator a bit as well. I managed to comment that the meter in no way shape or form could test to see if the clearcoat or paint was applied or mixed properly, that it didn't really show much at all. She responded it was merely a "general measure" of the paint's thickness.
At any rate, I feel I did all I could and presented the strongest case possible without the aid of legal counsel- which would have been ridiculous for me to do seeing as it would cost me more to get a lawyer than to repaint the front end of my car. The arbitrator said he would be making his decision in the next 1-10 days and I will be getting a letter from NCDS with the ruling. It's hard to say at this point whether they will find in my favor or not; the scope of this case is large and very widespread and could potentially have a lot of repercussions for Toyota if they do find in my favor. Needless to say I won't be shocked and destroyed if they don't. All I can say is that I tried my best and brought it to their immediate attention that there is a large problem with the paint on these vehicles, whether or not they choose to admit it.
Senior Member
Utah Scions
SL Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 557
From: Salt Lake, Utah
pleas pleas pleas pleas keep us up to date on waht happens waht is said and what not..... when u get the letter pleas pleas pleas let us know what it says..... i hope we get this problem solved and delt with soon......... 
thank you for all your hard work and help.... my prayers are with you and with the hole scion comunetty.
Member
SL Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 83
From: Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted by pdrizzle
Awesome job, Smash... I wish everyone with a problem had the leadership and fight in them that you have displayed in this matter.
I agree, keep up the good work, and dont stop fighting. YOU ROCK !!! and your my hero....seriously u are. I hope you turn this around. I hope by the time the 06 tC comes out the problem will be fixed so i can go one. Thank u smash, your really making a difference.
Senior Member
Utah Scions
SL Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 557
From: Salt Lake, Utah
Originally Posted by daveman235
Originally Posted by pdrizzle
Awesome job, Smash... I wish everyone with a problem had the leadership and fight in them that you have displayed in this matter.
I agree, keep up the good work, and dont stop fighting. YOU ROCK !!! and your my hero....seriously u are. I hope you turn this around. I hope by the time the 06 tC comes out the problem will be fixed so i can go one. Thank u smash, your really making a difference.
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,731
From: Minneapolis, MN
Originally Posted by Digital_Infiniti
So the car has been ordered and now I have this to look forward to.
My dad works for multiple car companies as part of their warranty claims investigation departments. The biggest claim is paint. He will tell all of you that a chip from an object is not covered and is deemed normal wear and tear.
The circles, bubbles, and peeling are defects and will be covered if you take the car in. Rust is only covered in certain areas... if you live in snow or near the beach... the adjuster will say its normal.
He says Toyota tends to be reasonable with their paint claims and you need to call your dealership and have it looked at as soon as possible. In most arbitrations, he goes on behalf of the car company. If he saw the evidence like on here... he would be in our favor.
My dad works for multiple car companies as part of their warranty claims investigation departments. The biggest claim is paint. He will tell all of you that a chip from an object is not covered and is deemed normal wear and tear.
The circles, bubbles, and peeling are defects and will be covered if you take the car in. Rust is only covered in certain areas... if you live in snow or near the beach... the adjuster will say its normal.
He says Toyota tends to be reasonable with their paint claims and you need to call your dealership and have it looked at as soon as possible. In most arbitrations, he goes on behalf of the car company. If he saw the evidence like on here... he would be in our favor.
And don't worry too much about your paint on your new car. From what I have seen the paint issues are few and far between. Mine looks great, no chips bubbles, swirls, etc and I have 9500 miles, including two 1200 mile road trips. I am curious to know when the vehicles with the paint issues were purchased. May have been a bad production run.
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,731
From: Minneapolis, MN
Originally Posted by Digital_Infiniti
So the car has been ordered and now I have this to look forward to.
My dad works for multiple car companies as part of their warranty claims investigation departments. The biggest claim is paint. He will tell all of you that a chip from an object is not covered and is deemed normal wear and tear.
The circles, bubbles, and peeling are defects and will be covered if you take the car in. Rust is only covered in certain areas... if you live in snow or near the beach... the adjuster will say its normal.
He says Toyota tends to be reasonable with their paint claims and you need to call your dealership and have it looked at as soon as possible. In most arbitrations, he goes on behalf of the car company. If he saw the evidence like on here... he would be in our favor.
My dad works for multiple car companies as part of their warranty claims investigation departments. The biggest claim is paint. He will tell all of you that a chip from an object is not covered and is deemed normal wear and tear.
The circles, bubbles, and peeling are defects and will be covered if you take the car in. Rust is only covered in certain areas... if you live in snow or near the beach... the adjuster will say its normal.
He says Toyota tends to be reasonable with their paint claims and you need to call your dealership and have it looked at as soon as possible. In most arbitrations, he goes on behalf of the car company. If he saw the evidence like on here... he would be in our favor.
And don't worry too much about your paint on your new car. From what I have seen the paint issues are few and far between. Mine looks great, no chips bubbles, swirls, etc and I have 9500 miles, including two 1200 mile road trips. I am curious to know when the vehicles with the paint issues were purchased. May have been a bad production run.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 946
From: Ashburn, VA
Thank you all for your kind and generous comments.. I'm just doing what I think is right- mama always taught me to fight for what I believe in!
Keep your fingers crossed and I will definitely post on here the second I receive a letter from NCDS.
Keep your fingers crossed and I will definitely post on here the second I receive a letter from NCDS.
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 8
From: miami, FL
I have a flint mica tc, less than 5k, and there is at least 10 nicks/scratches on the front bumper, and i hand wash/dry my car every week, and i haven't driven behind any rock trucks, and today i also noticed 2 hours after washing my car, that a spot that was perfect now had two scratches all the way to the bare metal, this next to my hood and the metal part of the fender, so the front now looks like it's been to war
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2
From: nashua, NH
Wow! sounds like a serious issue. Maybe I should cancel my order for new black xB.
I just booked a new scion xB at the dealer's. They didn't have the color I prefer (black) in the lot. So, I will have to wait until they get in their next shipment in about 2 weeks. I was so excted to get my new xB. But after reading the above comments about paint job, I'm having second thought. Maybe should opt for scion and get a civic or mazda.
I just booked a new scion xB at the dealer's. They didn't have the color I prefer (black) in the lot. So, I will have to wait until they get in their next shipment in about 2 weeks. I was so excted to get my new xB. But after reading the above comments about paint job, I'm having second thought. Maybe should opt for scion and get a civic or mazda.