I hope I didn't offend anyone there. I'm technically agnostic, but I am a spiritual person. I do own a Bible and I read from it. I am not anti-Christian or anti-Islam or even anti-religon.

I am just against religious bigotry and demonization of one religion in favor of another. I don't think Jesus or Mohammed or Siddhartha Gotama would approve of any of that. If Jesus were to return I think he would b*tch slap a lot of people. :lmao:

 

Well said. I agree 100%. It is not Islam that is to blame for the actions of a few extremeists <-sp? There will always be people who do really stupid things "In the name of" their religion, but if you look closely, you'll see that their religion doesn't teach that. Same with Christians. Those responsible for the crusades were not following the the teachings of Jesus. Neither are the wing-nuts who bomb clinics. Unfortunately, if someone wants a reason to turn their back on God, they'll point to those people as a reason.
*Back on topic* Is anyone ready to explain to me how, if 9/11 is a huge conspiracy, the republicans were able to keep it from the democratic senators....but we all know about it?

 

Again you apply crazy people who used the NAME of religion, but had no truth in scripture to justify what they were doing. Islam has their book the Qu'ran that justifies their actions. New Testament does NOT. Also, the Crusades were in response to Islam slaughering earlier....they took their land back. It will also be the same now.

How many conflicts are taking place in the world today and how many have Islam involved. It has nothing to do with religious intolorance....it has EVERYTHING to do with intolorance to a religion the is slaughtering innocent people across the world to take control of local governments and countries.

All of those who survived Muhammad's initial 7th century slaughter took up the sword after his death, as directed by the Koran, and devoted themselves to advancing Islam through military might. The resulting spread of the religion was phenomenal. Within a century, Islamic forces had conquered Saudi Arabia, the entire Middle East, Central Asia, and large parts of India. The armies raged through Egypt and across North Africa, destroying corrupt Byzantine Christianity in their path.

In 710 A.D.3 the Islamic armies crossed the Straits of Gibral_tar and quickly conquered three-fourths of Spain and Portugal. They then invaded France and took one-third of the nation. They were 125 miles from Paris when they were miraculously defeated at the Battle of Poitiers (also known as the Battle of Tours) in 732 A.D. by a French army led by Charles Martel. Their influence in Spain lived on for a few more centuries before they were slowly driven back to North Africa.

A second powerful attempt to subjugate all of Europe was made 900 years later in the 17th Century when the Turks began to expand their Ottoman Empire. They took Greece, Yugosla_via, Bulgaria, and parts of Romania and Hungary. By 1683 they had reached the gates of Vienna where once again the Western forces won a miraculous victory against overwhelming odds.

Following this second attempt to conquer Europe, Islam fell into a state of depression and stagnation until it was awakened in the 20th Century due to several factors: Wealth and control of oil.

 

That's wonderful. Very thoughful too. Isn't it great you can say that here, in a Christian based nation. I agree completely.

However...you can't say that in Saudi, Iran, Egypt, Syria, etc, etc, etc. Why? Because THEIR religion disagrees with you so much...they will chop your head off to silence you.

 

Well put my man

 

Wow, that sounded a bit condescending Sciondad. What book and verse did you learn that form of love and tolerance from? I think Boznox touched a nerve.

By the way the nation was founded by a majority of Deists not Chrisitians. Does the statement "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (Article 6, section 3) ring a bell?

The country is not "based" in any religion, but the idea of democracy and freedom with a government for the people by the people. A place where ALL religions and beliefs can be practiced WITHOUT the fear of persecution.

"The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy."
-George Washington

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise"
-James Madison

Religion is a wonderful thing when it is used to uplift and help people in their personal lives. However when you begin to force it on a secular world or rule of law, there is a fundemental breakdown that is often detrimental to society. Blurring the lines of fact and heresay using religious revisionist history knocks the foundation away from which this great nation was built.

We live in this nation because of what it stands for. I for one will do my part to not allow zealots turn it into something its not... no matter what religion they are.

 

People really need to see beyond D vs R in this matter as they are two sides of the same coin anyway...both are the same intelligence vacum, differing on (basically) only abortion, god, and guns.

Both parties need to fall by the wayside IMO.

9/11 is bigger than political parties. Research will prove valuable in answering your questions.

The fact the Dems are not "all over it" should allow you to see some of the truer colors of politics. Politics has never (recently anyway) been about truth, only about power and $$$.

 

Actually, it was quite sincere.......and truthful I might add. Since 90% of the nation consider themselves Christian....I would say it's a Christian nation.

And I will not allow PC people to change history and facts.

From the moment our founding fathers landed on Plymouth Rock (or sandy beach nearby)- it was founded in the name of God, by the grace of God. This is fact...yet removed from our public schools because it's not PC.

The Constitution of the USA was grounded in the principles of the Judeo-Christian religion and without that foundation neither our Constitution nor the liberty it guarantees could survive.

James Madison First.

At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read
Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge, [judicial]
the LORD is our lawgiver, [legislative]
the LORD is our king; [executive]
He will save us.”

In 1812, President Madison signed a federal bill which economically aided the Bible Society of Philadelphia in its goal of the mass distribution of
the Bible.
“ An Act for the relief of the Bible Society of Philadelphia” Approved February 2, 1813 by Congress

Regarding George... Quite a famous speech. I'm not suprised it's missed in PUBLIC Schools today.

President George Washington, September 17th, 1796 "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible"

His Prayer At Valley Forge "Almighty and eternal Lord God, the great Creator of heaven and earth, and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; look down from heaven in pity and compassion upon me Thy servant, who humbly prostrates myself before Thee."

"Bless O Lord the whole race of mankind, and let the world be filled with the knowledge of Thee and Thy Son, Jesus. "Of all dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens."

"To the distinguished character of a Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of a Christian."

The draft of the circular letter is in the hand of a secretary, although the signature is Washington's. Some have called this concluding paragraph "Washington's Prayer." In it, he asked God to: "dispose us all, to do Justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity, humility and pacific temper of mind, which were the Characteristicks of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy Nation."

George Washington as he resigned his commission as general of the Continental Army on December 23, 1783. "I consider it an indispensable duty to close this last solemn act of my official life by commending the interests of our dearest country to the protection of Almighty God and those who have the superintendence of them into His holy keeping."

At the end of the Revolutionary War, when the announcement of official peace arrived in America, George Washington issued his final sentiments. In his circular letter to the States on June 8, 1783, even though Washington gratefully acknowledged that we had won the war, he urged them to recall something of much greater importance and to remember...

... the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy Nation.

And.....For all you No Jesus in School people...separation of Church and State liberal Lie to our country....I think George had a different idea.

While encamped on the banks of a river, Washington was approached by Delaware Indian chiefs who desired that their youth be trained in American schools. In Washington's response, he first told them that "Congress... will look on them as on their own children." That is, we would train their children as if they were our own. He then commended the chiefs for their decision:

You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention.

According to George Washington, what students would learn in American schools "above all" was "the religion of Jesus Christ."

Don't read PC history books....read the ACTUAL letters written without edit. I know, it's not PC and I'll get flamed for it.....but truth is the truth, like it or not

 

Sciondad, you SAID Christian BASED nation. Not Christian majority nation.

Just because someone says "God" or "Lord" doesnt mean they are talking about the Christian definition of "God" or "Lord".

Dude, our founding fathers didn't "land on Plymouth Rock', the pilgrims did to escape religious persecution and form their own colony in 1620. Other colonies were formed, disagreement with England enters the picture, we fight for independance. In 1787 the constitution was authored by our founding fathers who were considerably different than the people that landed in Plymouth.

I deleted the rest of this post because it would take it to a level that I dont want it to escalate to in this topic. Check out an Encylclopedia sometime to get the real story on George Washington's beliefs. Not info cut and pasted from fivedoves or some other christian based website.

 

Man.. would be nice if we could have a world without religion. No more bickering about who's better and who's God is better.

Just the same people with different kind of personalities living life the way it should be lived (without belief in anything but law and order). But then again, I'm dreaming.

 

The Constitution of the USA was grounded in the principles of the Judeo-Christian religion and is irrefutable fact.

The Pilgrims were English Separatists. In the first years of the 17th century, small numbers of English Puritans broke away from the Church of England because they felt that it had not completed the work of the Reformation. They committed themselves to a life based on the Bible. Not the Qu'ran, not the Torah, not Hindu, not Budda....

An Encyclopedia?

No need.

I read first hand documents. You can find copies easily. You don't need someone else to edit content for you. I spend half my life removing the PC tripe and edited information. I want truth...not what someone else edited for me in their opinion of what I should know. This goes for scripture as well.

Same with Separation of Church and State. That's a Lie. No where, in the constitution is that phrase, nor is it implied anywhere except in the liberal minds of 1950's SCOTUS judges. Media now passes it off as fact and it's been pushed for so long, fools actually think it's true.

 

So let me get this straight. Are you insinuating that both political parties are in on it? That both the democrats and republicans know about it and have agreed to keep it a secret?

 

No, I am insinuating that neither party cares for the smae reason most Americans don't care....too busy with theire own lives to do some investigation.

Pictures are worth a thousand words.

Rent a DVD called "What A Blast" which is a Discovery channel-like program taking you inside the controlled demolition world.

Then watch one of the two DVD's previously mentioned by me.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Your eyes are not D or R. They only show what is put in front of them.

 

Okay, so if I understand you correctly, now we're back to it being something the republicans did, but the democrats don't know about.....but we do. Do you honestly think for one minute that if there was any truth to it at all, the democrats wouldn't have jumped on it? They would love nothing better than to bring Bush down. If this were true, they'd be able to have him thrown in prison for life. But you think they're "just too busy to care". Sorry....that just doesn't make any sense at all.

 

Im sorry I just dont think you get it. I would lOVE to hear you explain the collapse of WTC 7. FEMA was unable to do so because they want the collapse to fit into the story being sold to the world. The only plausable way to explain it is through the use of explosives.

Care to give it a shot?

If you truly care about the truth you must watch some of the DVD's mentioned (FYI - None are any that I have worked on by the way) and be able to think critically.

Consider the following:

Twin Towers

The Twin Towers exploded into dust and shattered steel, a behavior inconsistent with the known behavior of steel structures outside of explosive demolition.

The South Tower was struck 17 minutes after the North Tower, and in a less damaging manner, and it had less severe fires, yet it collapsed 29 minutes before the North Tower.

The South Tower's core structure was largely undamaged by the off-centered jet impact, unlike the North Tower, yet it collapsed sooner.

The South Tower had much less severe fires than the North Tower, and yet collapsed sooner.

Smoke from the fires in the South Tower became progressively darker up to the time it collapsed.

Firefighters reached the crash zone of the South Tower and calmly described controllable fires.

Both towers started to disintegrate at regions above and below the crash zones in the first seconds of their falls.

Both towers fell straight down, through themselves, following the path of maximum resistance, a behavior never before observed in spontaneous collapses of any type of vertical structure.

The collapses of both towers exhibited features never otherwise seen except in controlled demolitions: sudden onset accompanied by thunderous bangs, visible explosions ringing their perimeters, energetic ejections of dust at regular intervals, and copious production of dust.

Both towers exploded outward and where shredded and pulverized -- a pattern of destruction much more destructive than normal controlled demolitions, yet this result was supposedly produced without the added energy of explosives.

 

Building 7

Building 7 imploded late on 9/11/01. It was not hit by an aircraft.

Building 7 experienced total collapse, allegedly because of fires, when no steel-frame building before or since has ever collapsed, totally or even partially, due to fires.

Building 7 was an over-engineered 47-story steel-frame skyscraper, standing over 350 feet from the nearest of the Twin Towers. Only small fires burned in it on September 11th.

Building 7 collapsed in a nearly perfectly vertical fall, leaving the buildings only 60 feet on either side virtually unscathed.

Building 7 collapsed into a remarkably small rubble pile of mostly pulverized remains, when no steel building falling for any reason has ever pulverized itself.

Building 7 contained a 23-million-dollar emergency command center, but instead of using it for its ostensible purpose, then-Mayor Giuliani evacuated his team to a makeshift command center as soon as the September 11th attack started.

The emergency command center was destroyed along with the rest of the building, even though it was constructed as a bomb-hardened shelter.

The remains of Building 7 were rapidly removed and the steel recycled, evidently without any on-site and only extremely limited off-site examination. The rapid disposal operation proceeded despite the fact that no one was believed buried in the rubble, and the tidy rubble pile was not blocking adjacent roads.

The building's owner, Larry Silverstein, stated on a PBS documentary that he had conferred with the fire department commander on a decision to "pull it." Neither the FEMA nor NIST reports commented on this remark.

 

Through out my years of trying to enlighten people, I hear a lot that what I say "is just crazy". So I ask them to explain how 7 fell. No one can do it.

Here I offer up a possible conclusion and ask the same of you...if not explosives, then HOW? That is the question that MUST be answered before we get into the political blame game.

 

You still haven't answered my question. You keep changing the subject and you're trying to focus on all the circumstantial "evidence" that these videos show. I'm asking you to explain to me how it could be possible that our government did this. The bottom line is this: There are only two possible explanations for this to be a government conspiracy.

#1 The republicans did it. We all know about it, yet the democrats who would give their left ******** for this kind of information do not know about it.

#2 Both the democrats and the republicans know about it and have all agreed to cover it all up.

Which is it?

 

OK, I hate myself already for coming back into this, but, for the love, WHEN did the government have time to rig the explosives? Why would they do it? Who did they get to do it? There are reports of the city officials worrying that the towers MIGHT fall due to high winds from hurricaines.....I have not lived thru a hurricaine nor a jet crash, but I would imagine that the jet crash is a tad more violent.

PLEASE someone, explain just what on God's green earth the government had to gain from this. They have made no profit from war, they didn't need to go this extreme just to try to kill Sadam, if it was for oil, why are the OPEC nations still getting rich off of us?

Some of us that are more conservative has asked questions that don't get an answer, yet some of you that are more conspiracy minded get huffy if we don't answer your questions, and when we do, you just ask them over another way.
9 pages of this should have not only solved this, but, we should be well on the way to finding a cure for cancer.....

 

What? Oh man.....I thought we agreed on Diabetes first. Back to the drawing board.