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Interesting explanation of torque at the wheels

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Old Mar 8, 2006 | 12:41 AM
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Default Interesting explanation of torque at the wheels

This was found at another site:

The real skinny on torque & power:

Torque is what you feel, but it isn't actually the engine torque. It's the wheel torque. Wheel horsepower is pretty close to engine horsepower, only lower by some amount which is lost to friction. But wheel torque is a totally different thing from engine torque. It's quite common for a car to have a wheel torque of 2000 lb-ft. That's because engine torque is multiplied by the transmission to produce wheel torque, and the transmission can be designed to choose pretty much whatever multiplier you want. If a car produces less engine torque, the manufacturer will just choose a larger multiplier to produce optimal wheel torque. For example, here is a comparison of theoretical wheel torques, not counting friction, between a BMW 325 and Ford Mustang GT:

BMW 325xi
175 lb-ft.
3.23:1 final drive
1st gear - 175 x 3.23:1 x 4.21:1 = 2380 lb-ft.
2nd gear - 175 x 3.23:1 x 2.49:1 = 1410 lb-ft.
3rd gear - 175 x 3.23:1 x 1.66:1 = 940 lb-ft.
4th gear - 175 x 3.23:1 x 1.24:1 = 700 lb-ft.
5th gear - 175 x 3.23:1 x 1.00:1 = 565 lb-ft.

Ford Mustang GT
302 lb-ft.
2.29:1 final drive
1st gear - 302 x 2.29:1 x 3.37:1 = 2330 lb-ft.
2nd gear - 302 x 2.29:1 x 1.99:1 = 1380 lb-ft.
3rd gear - 302 x 2.29:1 x 1.33:1 = 920 lb-ft.
4th gear - 302 x 2.29:1 x 1.00:1 = 690 lb-ft.
5th gear - 302 x 2.29:1 x 0.67:1 = 460 lb-ft.

As you can see, although the Mustang has almost twice as much engine torque, its wheel torque will be almost the same as the BMW in every gear. So torque is pretty irrelevant.


The importance of power (wheel horsepower) is that it determines the maximum wheel torque you can get at a particular speed. The rule power = torque x RPMs / 5252 is true at the wheels too. To go 30mph, a typical 2 foot diameter tire would have to rotate at 420rpms. Supposing the car has 200 wheel hp you can solve the equation and get 2500 lb-ft. as the maximum possible wheel torque. At 60mph, the tires are rotating at 840rpms, and solving again you can get 1250 lb-ft. of torque. You still have to stick to the rule that wheel torque is engine torque times some multiplier, but shifting gears gives you some choice in the multiplier so you can come close to the theoretical maximums 2500 lb-ft. and 1250 lb-ft. above.

As you can see wheel torque is less at higher speeds, but more for any given speed if you have more power.


So the simple (sort of) answer is that power counts, torque doesn't. The more complicated truth is that torque counts a little. More specifically, the rpms given with the torque count. If the rpms are low and the torque is still high, that's a clue that the torque and power are good at all rpms. On the other hand, if the torque is at high rpms, near the rpms given with the power, power is good at high rpms only, and torque may also be good at high rpms only. Also, seeing a range of rpms with the torque as the Volvo has in its specs is good, since it should mean that the torque is flat or higher throughout that range.

from here:

http://forums.autoweek.com/thread.js...essageID=40569


So can anyone calculate the wheel torque of the tC?
Old Mar 8, 2006 | 03:01 AM
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All I care about is Revs and the tC doesnt have it...
Old Mar 8, 2006 | 06:38 AM
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interesting
Old Mar 8, 2006 | 03:40 PM
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Very facinating. So essentially, torque is pretty much just a multiplier along with your gear ratios for your wheel torque. It doesn't really matter how much torque you have, as long as you have the gearing to back it up.
Old Mar 9, 2006 | 07:16 AM
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here we go. i fried alot of brain cells. i should get an award.

Scion tC
163 lb-ft.
4.235:1 final drive
1st gear - 163 x 4.235:1 x 3.538:1 = 2442.30 lb-ft.
2nd gear - 163 x 4.235:1 x 2.045:1 = 1411.67 lb-ft.
3rd gear - 163 x 4.235:1 x 1.333:1 = 920.18 lb-ft.
4th gear - 163 x 4.235:1 x 0.972:1 = 670.98 lb-ft.
5th gear - 163 x 4.235:1 x 0.0775:1 = 53.50 lb-ft.

this is what i got. they're off by 1-3 lbs if anything.
Old Mar 9, 2006 | 04:15 PM
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to say that torque doesn't matter is a little inacurate.
it's true that the BMW and Mustang have fairly equal wheel torque after the final drive ratio equals them out.
but the part you're missing is that, because the BMW has such a higher final drive ratio, the rpm at highway speed will be much higher then the Mustangs.
also, since the Mustang has much higher engine tq, if one were to swap the rear gear for a higher ratio (say 3.23 like the BMW), you would end up with a lot more wheel tq then the BMW.
Old Mar 9, 2006 | 06:05 PM
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this is why cars like the honda s2000 benefit so much from a common upgrade of swapping their final drive gear.
Old Mar 12, 2006 | 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by chrischoi
here we go. i fried alot of brain cells. i should get an award.

Scion tC
163 lb-ft.
4.235:1 final drive
1st gear - 163 x 4.235:1 x 3.538:1 = 2442.30 lb-ft.
2nd gear - 163 x 4.235:1 x 2.045:1 = 1411.67 lb-ft.
3rd gear - 163 x 4.235:1 x 1.333:1 = 920.18 lb-ft.
4th gear - 163 x 4.235:1 x 0.972:1 = 670.98 lb-ft.
5th gear - 163 x 4.235:1 x 0.0775:1 = 53.50 lb-ft.

this is what i got. they're off by 1-3 lbs if anything.

53 lb-ft? Something's not right there. I think you're last gear ratio is off by a factor of 10. Probably 535.0 lb-ft, yes?
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