You'd think that, but you're clearly ignoring sales trends, marketing, and Toyota/Scion's own words.

1) Pure Pricing? Experimental
2) Marketing directly to 18-24 year old males, the most difficult cynical segment of the car buying market? Experimental
3) Creating vehicles that are purposefully ugly? Experimental
4) Creating ad campaigns that shun traditional media (second life, assy mcgee, destroying a model in a commercial) experimental

The list goes on and on. Most of these tactics have never been done before, how can you research something that has never been done? Especially when you're talking about how the general public will respond?

 

1) While Saturn was the first to do so, no one had attempted the same with a brand aimed at the youth market. In general, people dislike paying the sticker price, as they tend to see it as unfair.

2) You have clearly missed hte point of Scion's existence. As countless analysts have already stated (and have been quoted in this thread), there was no need for Toyota to launch Scion. They were already dominating the market. However, at the time, Toyota had the oldest buyer average, which was in the mid 40's I think. They could not capitalize on the young market.

They launched Scion and tried to appeal to the 18-24 year old male. Notice what magazines they advertise in, what channels they put commercials on, and what culture they try to create. A foolish person would think that revenue is revenue, and old people buying Scions is still a positive.

That's stupid. Now Scion can't get that coveted demographic anymore, because Toyota got greedy and started over producing the cars to meet the demand. They made the Scion brand "common", and that's exactly why most young people didn't buy Toyota's in the first place. Add the fact that the xD and new xB were not radically different than their predecessors, and you have Scion's current problem.

Scion is failing its purpose, and as a result, Toyota is loosing reveue by not adding new customers. The average old person that buys a Scion ususally comes in for a camry or corolla, but sees a Scion and decides to buy one instead. What business theory says cannibalizing your own sales is good?

3) Of course it's a matter of opinion. That's the whole point. Creating a car that is labeled by the majority as "ugly" is a risk. Scion was hoping that because the original xB stood out, was unconventional, and was unique, it would attract the young male who tries to be that way in his everyday life.

4) I'm very aware of the Scion United Ad campaign, I participated in it. However, look at the magazines it's being featured in. They're not mainstream. The website has always existed. However, if you look at Scion's advertising history, rarely was most of it done with television advertising. There were commercials, but the bulk of the advertising budget has always been spent on more untraditional tactics.

The Pendulum ad was very uncoventional. How many car companies destroy their car in the commercial? So what if it was CGI, that's unheard of.

You should read up:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...=&pagewanted=1

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=233225

 

What I would like to see, instead of just a single number (such as "the median age of Scion owners is 34, the youngest of any brand") is a chart, a distribution curve, that shows better where the real peaks in owner age are.

It doesn't take too many old farts like me to skew the average or median age, but if the curve shows a huge mass in the 18-30 demo, than a big space and a peak in the oldest demo, Scion has done exactly what it was intended to do.

The incredible practicality of the xB is of course going to attract folks looking for that feature, and they are going to buy the car no matter what the ads are like. In fact they may never have even seen an ad. Those are often cannibalized sales from other Toyotas when some old fart walks in intending to by a Toyota and buys a Scion instead. (I'm a rare "old one" and intentionally bought the xB because is wasn't like anything else on the US market.)

The real telling point, though, is how the buyer's ages are clumping, not the average.

If there is a huge clump ANYWHERE under 35, Scion has done it's job. It has attracted the attention of a group of buyers young enough to be forming their lifetime habits, whereas before this, those people - the customers for the next 40 years - were buying anything BUT a Toyota product.

Scion is Toyota's attempt to ensure that 20 years from now they will have customers.

Scion doesn't really make much money - it's not meant to. It's a "loss leader" to get the younger folks into the door, into the family. They don't really want to sell a whole lot: There's little profit in selling them. Scion is quite simply a path to FUTURE earnings for Toyota.

To meet that need sales have to be limited, the cars have to be uncommon, and for the most part "parents" have to detest the styling.

The newest Scion releases are too middle-of-the-road to do the job a efficiently as the original xB did.

(BTW, the xA was expected by Toyota to be the biggest seller, and the xB catching on and becoming the icon for Scion was a surprise to the marketeers.)

All auto sales are down right now, and that includes Scion. What one ned to do is look at the amount of decrease. xB2 is doing OK - a different demographic than the xB Classic, but not too far out of line. The tC is still selling, BUT it's drop in sales is greater than the class average which might mean it has reached the end of it's life as an attractant for the folks Scion is intended to attract.

Scion needs to replace the tC with a new vision in 2-door sporty and to reassert itself with a brutally in-your-face small car - the fourth Scion model.

So far Scion is doing OK itself, but Toyota isn[t following through on the inroads it made by providing a logical path for a Scion owner's "next car."

Let's hope that Scion's next models are as exciting as the original xB and tC were when they popped onto the scene.

 

Ummm, Volvo, Saab, Volkswagen and Chrysler leap to mind, and that is without really thinking about it.

Oh, and those weren't CGI.

I find it humorous that someone my age, walking into a Scion showroom with fat checkbook in hand, could actually cause fear in a marketer!

How do you get customers (of any age) without cannibalizing your other vehicle lines? Sell something unique! The Xb1 was. The "fat chick" isn't.

 

sales are down probably because of economy today.

but so what? there are millions of starving people in africa that we should be thinking about

 

tC-replaced by Fuze (still mostly affordable so ? rear wheel drive but the 2.4 motor is fine-just ad TRD turbo)

1st gen xb-replaced by either Yaris w quirks and turbo/SC performance ability through TRD or xP (truck) with same engine, ecu, etc as tC so all aftermarket stuff is immediately available-instint jump on the performance wagon car-restarts mini-truck culture as well with no competitors as of now

2nd gen xB-keep it for a while-graduate to the show car 2tb (or whatever it was called) in like 2 more years-brings a reminder of the 1st gen xB but with the quiet, power,etc from the 2nd gen

xD-offer it as a 2 door convertible in super unusual and bright colors as well and come up with TRD SC for that motor

4 car line-up that should appeal to most demographics with no (it's your father's oldsmobile issues) and the ability to have from light and quirky to comfy and fast with the ability to carry a lot and a convertible-you choose the model based on what you want most.

 

I noticed in one of my AutoWeek magazines, they had a picture of the new.....

Kia "Soul"

I swear, it looks like what the new Xb should have been. Do not know if I would consider a Kia even though they are improving......But that new Soul is probably going to be what truly puts Kia in the race. It is one hell-uv-a cool looking car! And it really does pick up where the classic Xb left off along with the new Nissan Cube.

Just "Google" ....Kia Soul

There are some prototype pics, but you want to search for the "production car' photos....it is awesome!

 

Yeah, the Kia Soul has a chance, depending on how they handle the details and interior.

I have to disagree, though, that it is "what the new xB should have been." there shouldn't have been a "New xB." It had it's three year run, and Scion should have stuck with it's promise to not just make a new version, but to make (and name) it something else. I'm still not at all pleased that Scion gave the xB name to a Camry wagon.

Yes, there should have been something in the Scion or even the Toyota line-up to replace the xB Classic, but that would be a small exterior, small engine, huge interior UUV (Toyota bB/Daihatsu Materia), a City Car - not some longer, lower, wider, more powerful freeway cruiser like the Camry Rumion.

Yeah, I'm still soured over that.

 

Tomas, you're awesome man.

I don't think lots of Scion owners realize what Scion was all about. Imagine how much COOLER the brand would be if Scion (or more imporantly Toyota) stuck to its original plans?

The mind boggles...

 

Not a bad little car. Slightly wider and longer than an xB1 with Engine options of 1.6, 2.0, and a 1.6 turbodiesel. I wonder which of these get to the US? A 2.0 is what a lot of folks wanted in the xB1, not a 2.4 with a much fatter body to haul around.

Kia's reputation for reliability is improving, much as the Japanese manufacturers' reputation improved in the '70s. If the Soul undercuts the xB2 and xD prices by much they'll sell every one they make. I'd consider it to replace my xB1 when it goes to college with my daughter.

 

Umm, I think it goes something like this:

1. Cheaply modify JDM econoboxes to compete with the Honda Element (which was quite a buzz at the time)
2. Create an inexpensive and innovative ad campaign to convince Gen Y folks that these econoboxes were somehow "edgy" and therefore desirable. Tell them any BS they want to hear about the "Scion Philosophy", because they won't remember in a year or two.
3. Hope that the Gen Y folks will develop some brand loyalty and buy Toyotas and Lexuses (Lexi?) when they grow up.

Toyota partially succeeded, but I don't think that their brand loyalty goal will work out. The old days of "Ford Man" "Chevy Man" are long gone. People buy what fits their needs and fancies.

 

The bottom line to Scion's 'dilemma' is they're way off target. When Scion first emerged as a new and innovative company for the younger generation they're dedication was to individuality, customization. With every passing year, they've fell victim to the every-day American demands: bigger, better, more power without fuel compromise. What happened to the against the grain styling of the original xB and the sporty lines and massive original equipment list of the tC? What in the world was Scion hoping to accomplish with their JOKE of an aftermarket program Optimize? I don't want 7 different types of ash trays, steering wheel covers and seatbelt pads, I want dedicated support for my insatiable urge to make my vehicle my own, whether thats building a boosted monster or outfitting my interior with enough ICE to make someone go deaf.

In the beginning Scion said they were dedicated to giving us a new and exciting model unlike the first every time a refresh period came around, not inflated versions of the last. When I bought my tC I bought into a company that had ideals and goals aimed at supporting a specific consumer group, not the largest percentage of America that would by its products. If Scion wants to get out of its 'slump' its R&D department and production team need to step back and look at the image its marketing department is projecting and Unite their company under the Individuality they are so proud of nurturing.

I know some of you might not be behind me on this and I'm not gonna lie and say I read every post on this thread and responded accordingly (because I know my response is about 5 pages too late). But I do know that some of you are thinking what I am and I do know that this site is about us sharing our thoughts and knowledge with each other. Maybe I'm being brash and maybe this is just pent up frustration with a Toyota and 'Scion' dealer not even knowing what TRD stands for... why don't you ask yourself if this is the company you first got excited about in 2005.

I'm not on a bash fest, I want Scion to succeed. I just think they need a reality check. Want some suggestion on how to get started Scion? I've got a list if your interested...[/i]

 

Right behind you. What's comforting to know is that most of Scion Corp. feels the same way, but unfortunately, they can only do what the parent company allows.

 

Quite frankly, I really don't care where Scion goes from here.....

Just as long as they don't take MY Scion away!

 

I know Tomas is sour about all of this and he has a right to be. I am sour too. A co-worker parks her new Xb2 in front of our building where I see it everyday walking in to work.....I am just numb about it. Don't hate it, but don't like it either. What I meant about the Kia SOUL is that it would have been a nice re-design of our Xb classic as long as they did not give it the Xb name. More of a evolution?...and call it the "BxT" maybe, I guess.

But I do like the SOUL. That is a cool -funky car that really makes me wonder if Kia was watching all of these forums and thought....

"Hey, lets pick-up where Scion left off and run with it since there is obviously a market for a Xb classic still."

I will always do my best to keep my good ol' Bella La' Toasty Classic Xb,( she is my "baby") but when I get that new car itch (and I will) , I cannot help but think I will give serious consideration about parking a new Kia Soul with my Classic Xb. How cool would that look in the carport with those two boxes parked on each side of my vintage 79' Beetle Convertible? They truly compliment each other with their own unique lines yet similar in ways too.

But I do agree with Tomas.
t.

 

After checking out the Pt Cruiser, Chevrolet HHR, Hondas and other cars the Scion XB was my choice. The competition didn't come close to the features of the XB. I'm 6'1" and I'm too heavy but I'm more than comfortable in the XB. Possibly more comfortable than in my former Ford PU. Our "weekend car" is a Porsche Boxster although I have to say that I really enjoy driving the Boxster more. Plenty of power, I find myself cruising at 75mph with an average of 28mpg on the first 3 tanks of fuel. I'm 60+ and the car is cool. I'm getting it pin striped this week and I'm having alot of fun with it. Highly recommended.

 

After checking out the Pt Cruiser, Chevrolet HHR, Hondas and other cars the Scion XB was my choice. The competition didn't come close to the features of the XB. I'm 6'1" and I'm too heavy but I'm more than comfortable in the XB. Possibly more comfortable than in my former Ford PU. Our "weekend car" is a Porsche Boxster although I have to say that I really enjoy driving the Boxster more. Plenty of power, I find myself cruising at 75mph with an average of 28mpg on the first 3 tanks of fuel. I'm 60+ and the car is cool. I'm getting it pin striped this week and I'm having alot of fun with it. Highly recommended.

 

I have no doubt that xB1 sales was a major factor in Kia's decision, although my ego isn't big enough to think that the forums had much to do with it. It was just a matter of recognizing a market niche in which they could compete and make a profit.

Kia doesn't have to play the "chase Gen-Y" game like Scion because they already have a good following in the younger market.

If the price is low enough (say, $12000-13000), and with a 10 year warranty they will sell a lot of their Souls.

I just wish I had a Kia dealer a bit more local.

 

If Scion was smart they would dump the xB2 and xD and bring back cars that people actually WANT to buy. Maybe bring out the new bB as a replacement for the dreadful xB2. Otherwise I think they are gonna have problems for awhile.

 

Aw, don't discontinue the xB2, it's a good vehicle. Just make it a Toyota Camry SRW (Sport Recreation Wagon) and bring in the left-hand drive version of the current JDM bB (Materia) as one of two new Scions.



Just kidding, guys. It would never happen, anyway.