who cares i already smoked 2 new si civics one hatch and one 06 si its worthless. LOCKED!

 

it mention in the begining of the article. tC's supercharged 2.4L engine against si's NA 2.0 engine. People would expect the tc would beat the si by a big margine. The result wasn't close to what they expected.
We love our tc. but we got to give credit to Honda for squeezing 197 hp out of that K20 engine.

 

 

Heh, this was a while ago...

Anyways, yea, we gotta give Honda props for their high power/liter ratio but all the same, a supercharged 2AZ = or > than K20Z3 in power. With proper driving they should at least meet each other. I think the limiting factor here is the tires.

 

Probably couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Taq. You don't count! was it 8 psi your running at?

Anywho. the Civic Si is a nice car for 20k (closer to 21 but eh) if you can get it at MSRP.
But its heavy.
Even though it weighs the same as a tC it has less interior room (Go figure, probably went to the suspension for all those roof top landings)

If you ever looked at the engine bay (like the honda technician stated)
There is NO room for anything. And honda doesn't support the aftermarket as much as they used to. Especially compared to scion. So expect more parts faster.

 

Theres already a ton of parts either already out or coming out for the z3 and suspension. Theres not as much room compared to other honda's, and older civics but theres still enough room to play with. The Xb doesn't have that much room with the 1nz yet theres a guy on here with a b16 (i believe) swap. Look at the yaris, no room in the yaris either really but theres one guy that i know of with a 2zz swap. Things can be done, size of the bay isn't everything its how you work with what you have that counts.

 

Killer. I don't know if you've looked in a civic SI engine bay. But the XB has room in Spades compared to the Civic SI LOL

And as for the parts comment. I didn't say parts weren't comming out (I believe Honda already has a Optional suspension kit you can purchase)

But Honda does not support aftermarket as much as they used to. This is a fact. With that they aren't spending as much money into building the aftermarket for thier cars compared to scion.

So Like I said before "expect MORE parts FASTER" from Scion.

There will still be parts for the civic SI. Just don't expect them to be released as fast or as plentiful

 

Mind providing a link to some of the abundant parts? I would like to look up what is already out for it.

 

Not arguing anymore I think ive established my stance on this arguement.

But just making an observation (please dont think I hate hondas or something) when I sat in the new si and looked at the engine the first thing i noticed is as if honda was trying to make the car unworkable on (just opinion). The stock stereo is part of the whole dash to change that monster out you need to replace a huge part of the dash. Engine, the only thing accessable is the intake very easily btw. But as for other engine parts I have no clue how you'd even get a wrench in that tight spot to put on a strut bar.

Just observations people not hating on the car I actually like it only thing I hate is the weird long dashboard. Love the tc so much more though

Btw if I want to I can trade my tc in for the new si with a very small added amount of money. (I know the owners of the dealership) Choose not to.

 

Also just an idea to the mods of whoever, Why not make a post of an unbiased comparison between the two cars (not which one is better) just pros and cons of each then sticky it and make it the official tc and si thread so no more of these arguements pop up.

Id do the pros and cons my self but I think that should be left to someone more knowledgeble about performance.

 

I think I might have to disagree with that statement. Reason being is from the pure fact that they donated like 6 or so new 06 Si's to the like of the Aftermarket companies (ie..GReddy, AEM, Tein...etc), to build thier concepts for the Sema Show. And also to mention, they seem to be the driving endorser behind MTV's new tuner TV show called "Trick it Out".

The only reason I can think of as to why they didn't spend as much money into building the aftermarket for their cars, is because they don't have to. They have "Brand" recgonition in the aftermarket world, becuase every freaking body has a stinkin Honda civic with a crappy wing on the back. So, when the SI came out, they relied on the name "SI" (which stands for What? by the way), to keep it's aftermarket roots.


Reality though, the new 06 SI is the only Civic fast enough to beat a stock tC.. (my fighting words for today).

 

si stands for street injection. And someone consider my previous post above.

 

I'm not saying Honda doesn't support aftermarkt.

What I am saying is they don't support it as much as they used to.

 

95% of what scion offers is cosmetic, not performance. Honda doesn't have to support the aftermarket, its natural for the aftermarket to support their cars. They have spent thousands of dollars, as rythmn mentioned donating their Si to companies before the car even hit show rooms. Almost two months prior to coming out the Si was in the hands of AEM/DC, and i think a few other companies at that time. That in itself should tell you they support the aftermarket and what the market has to offer their tuners that buy the cars.

rhythmnsmoke; you keep saying the new Si is just fast enough to beat a stock tC. Okay, how about this one. The ep3 Si is identically fast to the tC in stock forum, and with i/h/e. Don't believe me? Go to streetfire, any honda site, or any other source you could think of that supplies videos. Countless people have raced against the ep3 with their tC's and have either lost, or came so close its declared impossible to say who won. I have seen one race personally of a ep3 and a tC on the track, tC had i/h/e and a few other things, Si had i/h/e and short shifter. Si ran something like 15.2, and the tC ran the identical time only the last two numbers were slower. 15.2XX, x's implying numbers. Your one of the few who have just flat out killed a ep3, and my knowledge of both cars. As i have said numerous times, equal drivers, you wouldn't have killed him.

My point with the ep3 and new Si? New Si is quite a bit faster than the previous Si, new Si with a good driver would be hard pressed to keep up with your i/h/e tC. With the supercharger, as i have said before, almost identical times with a stock Si. I'll give you this, the tC with the supercharger could be slightly faster with dead even drivers. But in no way, would the s/c tC smoke or even kill a stock Si. It's amusing how, when the new Si came out and everyone saw the stock Si running low 15's with magizine drivers, the tC stock all of a sudden became a 15.4-15.5 car stock.

 

Read carefully....I said the new 06 SI is the only one that BEATS a stock tC. Coming close to the times (in some cases equal times), is different from a flat out definitive win. Stock vs Stock the 06 SI is the ONLY one that DEFINITIVELY would win against a STOCK tC. And I would have to disagree on the almost identical times. SI with 197hp at the crank vs. a tC with 200hp at the Wheels, sorry dude that's at least a 1 1/2 to 2 car lenght by the time you hit 100mph. 20lbs in weight difference won't even be noticed.

And I can't recall any "written" or "verbal" confirmation of ANYONE saying that a stock tC was running a 15.4-15.5 1/4.

 

git em rythm, GIT EM!


suck it once more killerx

 

What is TRUELY amusing "killerx" is how you think the SI is in on a totally different scale than the tC, and we only WISH to be as good as the 06 (or any previous) SI's for that matter. Sure you don't say that, and you give props to the 2az all day, but between the lines in every one of your post, you take jabs at the tC, and put out this persona that it's light years beneath the SI, when in reality, It's in the same category/class/buyer group.

 

Stop man, my bladder is about to explode!

 

Would you like me to take jabs at the Si for a change to make you feel better? The k20z3's ecu is weaker than previous Si motors, and is one of the weaker K20 series ecu's. It can hold up well, but will need to management earlier than previous and other motors hondas put out with the exception of the D series, B16b, and a few others. The engine bay has significantly changed for the fact theres not near as much room to play with compared to the ep3 and other si's. While this could work against you, if you know what your doing the size difference, rather space difference wouldn't effect the possible out come of a build up. It is more heavy than previous years, but also has a bigger platform in terms of motor and a slightly heavier trans now with the 6speed. But the weight added has been cancelled out sort of speak by the additional power its making, the gearing, and more aerodynamic than other years..Especially the ep3.

I have never said the new Si was perfect, but many of you are completely down playing what the Si is able to do. 06' Si is the only honda that can beat you? Or do you mean Si's. Stock for Stock, the EP3 would be a drivers race. The tC wouldn't just kill it regardless of what you've done, its been shown 15x over again if you just looked around. B series Si would be one you could beat, however in terms of build up its a stronger n/a platform than the 2az is. You praise the 2az a ton, i give it props but have you actually seen the internals of the 2az? There are a ton of weaknesses to the 2az that i don't think you realize is there.

200whp with supercharger? I think not, more like 185-190whp. The Si isn't far behind that, it then becomes a drivers race for sure. When it becomes that close, every single little thing matters in the end result.

Now i will say, in terms of f/i the 2az is a better starting platform than the k20z3 is, or any other honda thats in the u.s. But n/a, specifically the z3 since thats what we are talking about, is a much better platform than the 2az is to begin with.