"Lightweight" is relative anymore, especially with all of the US safety criteria that has to be met. Most every car now is heavier than it previous generation. However: At 2200lbs a Lotus Exige is undoubtedley a "lightweight," I would dare to call it an "ultra-lightweight" by todays standards. At 2900lbs I would consider the Si and tC light-middleweights. Those are base weights—adding the ground effects, wing and 18" wheels all add significant weight (probably 300-400lbs) putting either car out of any lightweight catagory. It actually borders on the "heavy-as-a-pig" category which many people are classifying the '06 Jetta GLI (3300lbs).

IMHO.

 

IMO i think the tC is waaaay better than the Si. my bet is in the next year there will be twice as many Si's on the road than tC's. just bc it's a honda and it is the ultimate "ricer" mobile.

 

The tc is a cheaper made car with so many issues, the Si is more sporty and well made.

 

The tc is a cheaper made car with so many issues, the Si is more sporty and well made.

 

looked up the curb weights...28 pound difference. i don't think 2900 pounds is lightweight...personally (si 2877, tC in manual is 2905). i think what's sad, is that if you look just at our forums alone, it's easy to see that the ricer crowd has already attached itself to the tC. i'm sure the new Si will take some of them back though. man i love seeing a cleany done tC. clean being the key word

 

It hasnt even been out for long yet. You dont know how it will hold up yet. My tC has no issues either.

 

You've got to be kidding me.

 

I smell a troll....

 

i smell pancakes!!!

 

The only main difference with Honda vs. Toyota is the fact Honda puts more performance thought into all their cars vs. Toyota as far as general overall class specs.

As for the s/c tC vs. Si.. Its not impossible for the Si to beat the s/c tc, gearing plays a huge role as well as about another 100 small things.

Bottom line is, the Si overall performs better than the tC regardless of what you guys may think. Most of you haven't even test driven a 06' Si, so most of the interior remarks you guys have are not really valid.

I've personally test driven a 06' Si, its pretty fast stock. Faster than a s/c tC, debateable. But not imposslbe. All whp on the Si is top end, so once it gets in high rpm and stays there (also help with vtec), its a pretty mean car. Obviously s/c tC will beat off the line. But who knows, until someone shows a video of several runs with the two i don't believe you guys are going to believe it.

Honda and Toyota both have reliable cars, you guys put down Honda like its some mid 90's Kia.

 

at least someone else can think with a clearly and intelligently.

 

Yes, but when whp on car A matches bhp on car B added to that gearing is pretty similar (I doubt the Si would have even more aggressive gearing than the tC but it's possible with such relatively low torque in the early rpm band the Si could make better use of more aggressive gearing than the tC - aka, burnout city) and weight being pretty similar, car A should win in a speed competition.

What could have been a big factor is the spinning tires that I mentioned.

In anycase, in an overall comparison, I have no doubt the Si would beat the tC. The only thing an SC does is add power; it doesn't make the car handle better, it doesn't make the car apply power to the ground better (worse in fact) it doesn't even make the car look better (from the outside of course.. underhood aesthetics don't count!)

 

Well said. Oh, and the Si does have slightly more aggressive gearing than the tC.

 

They should have gotten the TC with the entire TRD package springs, shocks, sways, shifter, clutch and supercharger. Instead they put fogs and a ground kit on it not performace stuff. With the entire TRD package the TC will win but thats just my thoughts.

 

I seriously doubt even with the complete "trd package" the tC would win everything, even if it did, you've spent around $22,000+ after everything.

 

^ ^

Not only that, but as i've said since day one, comparing a modified car to a stock car is ridiculously stupid when you compare performance to performance.

 

We are not comparing a modified car against a stock car the SI is the performance edtion of the civic line up, it comes with performance parts. LSD, 8000g redline,I-VTEC, and performace suspension. The TC with the TRD package is the TC's performance ed. I think you get alot more car with the TC for the price. We really don't know until they race. I drive a TC so I will give my car the edge. Also If you compare a stock TC to the EX model they are in the same price range and the TC beats that .

 

Technically speaking, you are correct. However, we are not talking about trim levels of the civic. We are talking about the Si comparing to tC. The Si is stock if you do nothing to it from the factory, regardless of its trim level. TRD tC is not stock for the fact it didn't come like that from factory. Also, with the s/c, regardless of the trd name its not stock. 2az does not come boosted therefore you can't say a trd s/c installed on a tC is stock either.

Trim level doesn't effect wether a car is stock or not. I think you tCers for whatever reason just can't accept the fact the Si is a better performing car from the factory. Any car can be modified to beat any other car, you could dump $15k into the tC and out perform an STI, for example. It doesn't prove the tC is a better car than the STi, it just proves with $15k it can be faster. Same concept, just a different car and price range.

Someone buys an Si and doesn't do anything else to it, that Si is stock.

 

Care to explain that astute observation? How does favoring one Japanese car over another give the magazine an "agenda geared toward the American consumer?" If anything, Honda is the underdog compared to Toyota, who as I'm sure you've read, is now poised to challenge GM as the world's biggest automaker.

If there were any truth in that American consumer agenda thing you said, this comparison would be between the Si and something like the Cobalt SS and they would have praised the Chevy while shooting down the Honda.

 

I have driven the Si yesterday and like it a lot. but, I prefer the tC styling.

That said, the honda dashboard is an unusual lay out but feels better quality than the tC. It feels (and is) considerably faster than my NA tC.The back end just isnt winning me over. Its a very good car BUT It just isnt who I am.

It appears that Scion have hit a real niche in the market with the tC.Most honda guys dream of having a NSX or other big boy ricer. Where as I think that most tC guys have a bit more a Euro outlook to car styling.I know on this website alone the amount of people who attack any post mentioning spinners or Mach 3 razor style spoilers.

Put VW badges on the tC and its a modern day Corrado!(an awsome car, my friend had a VR6 in red) I even traded my black jetta for the tC.

What do you think???
Is the tC the most EURO coupe to come out of Japan?