I think the problem here is that everybody that you are trying to convince is sitting there trying to add up 2+2 and still coming up with 3. Not their fault by the way. I just don't see how that small turbo at 8 psi, regardless of fuel being used, can generate enough airflow to create the cylinder pressures needed to put out 365 WTQ, on a DD dyno no less.

The anology that always comes to my mind when I see posts like this is:

"how can you make grits in 5 minutes when it takes the rest of the grit eating world 20 minutes to boil their grits" (My Cousin Vinnie, hilarious movie, btw).

Are you running any type of boost controller? If so what type?

I think that you can start to convince people otherwise by taking your car to the 1/4 mile drag strip and seeing what your trap speeds are. With that power on a DD Dyno, I would expect to see a full-weight tC easily eclipsing the 105+ mph mark on every pass. BTW, don't forget to have a camera pointed at your boost gauge too for verification.

- Toan

 

lol its flaming like crazy like wildfire in LA bahaha.. sorry though



lol methanol wont help much w/ injectors maxed out, maybe your fuel pump does but not by 100hp more but meth doesnt help much with your afrs, you are not using methanol as primary fuel all it does is cool the mixture get your car more resistant to knock, even so methanol requires a different afr to make good power that if using as primary fuel.. all it does is help you get more hp by running aggressive afrs safely. And the key point of methanol injector is there complex but no rocket science, not that secret theory your tuner has in mind

you should start opening books bro and attending classes, seems like your tuner is good in tuning your mind that he is a tuning god.

 

let us hear yours kick!

 

zz

 

Toan,
I really appreciate you replying to this topic. I apologize in any way if I made any offensive comment towards you without actually talking to you. I'm not a tuner, so unfortunately I don't know exactly what variables and what not my personal tuner did to reach these numbers.

My current power mods would be:
Greddy Bolt On turbo Kit
Full 2.25" Turbo back Exhaust catless
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
AEM Methanol injection kit (running 100% methanol)
Greddy Emanage Ultimate w/ 440cc injectors
TurboSmart manual boost controller
Exedy Stage 1 clutch
Fidanza Lightened flywheel

I haven't taken my car to a 1/4 drag strip since my last tune (no meth, no walbro fuel pump), but running my car with full interior, 6psi, kumho all season tires w/ my 18" rims, I ran 14.0 flat. It's a crappy time, and I'm not a good driver when it comes to the 1/4 mile time.

I talked to my tuner about people claiming he's fluffing the numbers, and he said the same thing, "people can believe what they want, but why would I want to put my reputation on the line to add an extra 50-100 hp or torque to make you look better and myself worse" he said something of that nature.

Toan, if you are interested, I can get you in contact with my tuner, and you could ask him exactly what he did, because if you are doubting him and the dyno numbers as well, it might be worth your time to learn something from him, or at least call him out if he is lying. If I was a tuner and I wasn't able to produce the numbers that another tuner was doing, I definitely would be on the phone trying to figure out what the difference was.

 

zz

 

I'll soon have epic VTAK.
http://www.twminduction.com/Throttle...s2000_dyno.jpg

Lulz. I love that little spike in power rofl. +30whp in a matter of 100rpm :D.

 

there's a difference between methanol injection via an intake tube and running 100% methanol through the injectors. You would need to run almost twice as much methanol through the injectors to make the same power, basically if you're making that power on 400cc injectors, you would basically need 800cc injectors if you switched to 100% methanol fuel. Methanol injections allows you to run higher boost with with pump gas, raising the threshold before detonation--basically octane booster. There's no magical methanol mixture that's going to give you an extra 100 ft/tq just by upping that turbo 2psi. There's only so much BTU in a molecule of fuel.

The argument here is not so much about the dyno graph, but more about the boost level to achieve this number. Like i've said before we've made similiar number on a greddy kit before, but it was at 18psi peak tq tapering to 12 psi peak hp at redline and NOT 8psi and definitely not with a stock exhaust but a 3" turbo back and 625cc injectors.

And yes, i may need to get a new tuner. Toan's EFI Univ. Adv certication, Greddy emanage certication, tuning with the Haltech engineers, Tuning the race car...tuning tc, xb, xa, mr2, evos, sti, 350z, s2000, rsx, civics, mazdaspeed, 3000gt, supras, vettes, all worthless experience.

MrC

 

Again I'm not familiar with tuning cars and can't exactly explain how he tuned my car. I've said it numerous times, call the tuner yourself if you are itnerested. If you want to talk about tuning credibility, he's tuned well over 700 cars, including track cars, drag cars, etc. He has many certifications, but I think his most credible one is that he's AEM trained and certified (something like that, i saw his certification). It's pointless for me to argue about how he achieved those numbers since I can't explain it, but he would be more than happy to explain it. If I was a tuner, I would be all over trying to figure out his method and at least comparing it to my own to see if it would help, but obviously you aren't looking at the bigger picture.

I don't care how big your company is, but if you want to be ignorant about this conversation, and not talk to the tuner yourself, you're selling yourself short and your company, and every customers car you tune.

Also, it sounds to me like everyone is brushing off chris rado's turbo'd xb. We should get a rep from his company onto this thread and see how they could explain how they got 330 whp with there standard bolt on turbo kit, if you are doubting me, then you are doubting descendant racing as well, cause im sure there turbo setup isnt dramatically bigger than my turbo setup.

 

Like a few mentioned, one reason for the exaggerated torque was because the run was in 3rd gear. It's an indirect gear which throws off the readings. I don't know why anyone does 3rd gear tuning/pulls.

Also, you said the numbers are similar on a dynapack. Generally, dynapacks rear 10-15% higher than uncorrected and properly calibrated DD's, so the tuner could very well be using a correction factor on the DD dyno.

 

^^ i didnt ask if it was 3rd or 4th gear, I assumed it was 3rd.

 

i got the popcorn!! :D

 

been got the popcorn

 

what MrC said.. really methanol injection is all what it is, tuning process is complex but again it is not rocket science with hidden concepts getting huge gains over same setup without it.. its either with dyno calibration or he used some spray while doing the dyno


pretty much to sum up the tuning process, no secrets involved
1. Get all hardware/car setup
2. Do the fuel map (could take the longest), decide or look for an afr with best burn- w/ WMI you can go usually 12.2-12.6 afr depends how much aggressive you want

3. Advance spark until it stops making power (happens before it knock/detonate) or if starts knocking (not the best way to figure out)

thats pretty much it with tuning w/ meth much like tuning without one, all needs to be done is get your new desired afr and keep advancing ignition until you need to stop..

a competent tuner will not make 100hp over another competent tuner unless some major changes in the players involved

 

If you want ppl to talk trash about the decendent kit, I will start with kiss kiss kill saying she got 250HP (she will have to clarify on whethee she meant WHP or not) on 5 PSI with her AUTO! So with that said I think their number may be inflated also.



All in all dyno number overall cant be compared to many factor can be altered to make the numbers ppl want them to be. Real test is how it performs. Just take it to the track very soon, and see what 1/4 times you run. That'll put the final word on it. All this talk is just worthless ranting. Just my opinion

 

I know, I'm just saying that could very well be the cause of an insanely high torque reading. I've seen a Mustang dyno in first gear. It made a whopping 3700ft-lbs of torque. Same reason why that new e-tron Audi makes 3300ft-lbs of torque. It's in 'first' gear.

 

I was going to say this but I don't have a dyno sheet. 250whp is where my setup was at at 8psi, and I have a bigger turbo and I'm manual. Their dyno is insanely inflated lol.

 

hmmm...

if i reach my goal of 400whp on ptunings dyno ill be so
freaken happy...if not..ill just have decendant or dodaddys tuner do the job on the inflated dyno..lol

 

I just noticed that you said you're running an Exedy stage 1 clutch. If you were putting down 365ft-lbs, that clutch would have been destroyed as fast as a stock clutch. The stage 2 is only rated for 320ft-lbs and I can't find a rating for the stage 1, which means it's probably somewhere around 220-240, stock range.

 

You're exactly right on the clutch, it is rated at 210whp range, but hasn't slipped yet. Mind you that I don't rail on my car ever, i usually shift at 3-4k rpm's quarter throttling the car because of that. But it didn't slip on the dyno at all during tuning or dyno days.

You guys can believe whatever you want, I'm not forcing you to believe me, I'm just stating what my tuner has told me. Even with the greddy kit base map I was still putting down 240whp. I've dyno'd using other dyno's and it's read higher than the dyno that was used to tune my car.

Ask kiss_kiss_kill about the xb, she will straight up tell you they daily'd that xb at 330whp, she told me this a few months ago, at least im pretty sure it was her that told me.

If you think you are so knowledgeable about tuning, like i said, any respectful tuner would be wanting to hear how he tuned my car, and he is welcome to any callers that doubt him to give him a call. If your ignorance is preventing you from wanting to hear his knowledge of tuning then so be it, but realize that you are selling yourself short, and not getting a tune as good as mine if you had my setup. I'm only calling you guys ignorant because not one person has called my tuner to prove him wrong. Once I hear a valid argument as to why my numbers are false then I will be more than happy to listen and of course determine that he is a fake, but until then, sounds like everyone doubting me is afraid to admit themselves wrong if he proves you wrong.

Most of the people that are posting on this thread I'm sure aren't even full time trained tuners so therefore lack that sense of knowledge. If you are basing my numbers off of other people's numbers, has anyone ever posted there dyno numbers with this kit from oregon aside from myself? Nope, so statistically theres always a low number, median, and a high number in a range. I fall into the high number category believe it or not.