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Scion tC 1G ICE & Interior In-car entertainment and electronics...

I'm building fitted woofer boxes.

Old Jun 13, 2008 | 07:40 AM
  #61  
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The hate is strong with this thread. Sad to see threads like this really.
Old Jun 13, 2008 | 07:42 AM
  #62  
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Very
Old Jun 13, 2008 | 11:11 AM
  #63  
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Well Phil I came here to back you up but I think you made yourself pretty clear. Its pretty obvious he took the same design and ran with it making pretty much no changes. I'll post pics of the REAL box designed from Phil (Woodlawn, Mr Cabinetry) later this month or next, depending on time.
Old Jun 13, 2008 | 11:28 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by wazzu_coug
Ok. Maybe not exactly a "stupid" question. Just an ignorant question. It's an ignorant questions because, everyone who knows anything about building subwoofer boxes knows you only use MDF. It's the best material because it's one of the strongest materials (yes there are stronger materials, but are not as cost effective) and it has a much better ability. Read further in that thread. The kid was 17 as well (coincidence?) and got the birch for free from his dad. That build is not practical eithor. 2x 18" RE subs in a mini cooper?? Eithor a show car, or competing in SPL. Not intended to be a daily driver or be concerned with SQ.

Excuse me that I didn't take into consideration the displacement of the subwoofer. Not a dumb comment by any means. So your still barely scaping into the maximum volume for the driver. Still going to sound like crap.
Now WOW I didn't like the other guy because his idea was stupid, now you....almost no comment. So you are telling me that MDF is the end all to enclosure building??? Look on page 2, I posted a link for a guy building enclosures with TRUPAN light wood. How about that one? NO/YES? Or maybe you should go and tell the guy here that is local to me that his xterra is wrong because he walled it with 2 18" DD building with 13ply birch.

Oh no a world record holder


Oh here go my weak ply enclosure

my pitifully number for 2 10s in a daily box on music sealed up


Old Jun 13, 2008 | 02:43 PM
  #65  
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Finally something useful from you Birch ply it is.
Old Jun 13, 2008 | 03:49 PM
  #66  
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birch ply is not a bad thing to use but its all a matter of preference... the birch movement has become a rather new thing for subwoofer enclosures... i personally feel that a sub sounds.. hollow in a birch box.. the MDF is cheaper, easier to work with.. thats what i have been using for 6+ years in the car audio field now and thats what i am going to stick with..

and trials.. i feel your numbers are more due to your box design rather than your material... just look at the guys that take a 8" sub and get them to hit like 140's all due t the box.. be it MDF or birch or drywall.. well not drywall...

but oh well..
Old Jun 13, 2008 | 04:52 PM
  #67  
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Drywall would be interesting o.0
Old Jun 13, 2008 | 04:52 PM
  #68  
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repost, my bad
Old Jun 13, 2008 | 05:14 PM
  #69  
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just build the box and show us how spectacular is is.....

can't really add anything else, pretty much x127 on everything that's been said.... but just build it man, to each his own
Old Jun 13, 2008 | 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by tweetertc
birch ply is not a bad thing to use but its all a matter of preference... the birch movement has become a rather new thing for subwoofer enclosures... i personally feel that a sub sounds.. hollow in a birch box.. the MDF is cheaper, easier to work with.. thats what i have been using for 6+ years in the car audio field now and thats what i am going to stick with..

and trials.. i feel your numbers are more due to your box design rather than your material... just look at the guys that take a 8" sub and get them to hit like 140's all due t the box.. be it MDF or birch or drywall.. well not drywall...

but oh well..
A well made design is just as good as the material enclosure itself, just like some stupid people that would try to make an enclosure out of plywood just to have it implode on itself after turning it on! So that's why I used old man Steve's xterra just to show also that 13ply birch is not a bad thing, the density (especially void free) of it is just about the same as mdf. The benefit of it all is that instead of having a box that weighs 70lbs (MDF), now I have a box that weighs 40lbs(ply). My subs itself weighs more than the box. As for the "box design" its just a ported box....nothing fancy about it.
Old Jun 13, 2008 | 05:32 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by trialsindude
Originally Posted by tweetertc
birch ply is not a bad thing to use but its all a matter of preference... the birch movement has become a rather new thing for subwoofer enclosures... i personally feel that a sub sounds.. hollow in a birch box.. the MDF is cheaper, easier to work with.. thats what i have been using for 6+ years in the car audio field now and thats what i am going to stick with..

and trials.. i feel your numbers are more due to your box design rather than your material... just look at the guys that take a 8" sub and get them to hit like 140's all due t the box.. be it MDF or birch or drywall.. well not drywall...

but oh well..
A well made design is just as good as the material enclosure itself, just like some stupid people that would try to make an enclosure out of plywood just to have it implode on itself after turning it on! So that's why I used old man Steve's xterra just to show also that 13ply birch is not a bad thing, the density (especially void free) of it is just about the same as mdf. The benefit of it all is that instead of having a box that weighs 70lbs (MDF), now I have a box that weighs 40lbs(ply). My subs itself weighs more than the box. As for the "box design" its just a ported box....nothing fancy about it.
well if the density's were about the same.. you wouldnt have such a huge weight difference in the same size box.. personally thats where i feel MDF is the greater of the two ... again.. not saying birch is bad.. i just believe as well as multiple other well known installers, that MDF is superior in subwoofer enclosure design... oh yeah.. and plywood is a big no no in car audio
Old Jun 13, 2008 | 05:39 PM
  #72  
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oh yeah.. and another question.. what kind of mic were you using and where did you place it trials.. cause that can make a few decible difference..

and simple box yes.. well designed absolutely.. i saw your design.. whoever did it also tuned the port which is a common mistake with amateur and pro box builders alike..
Old Jun 13, 2008 | 05:42 PM
  #73  
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once again now taken from here:
http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/index.php...d=91&Itemid=26
Mechanical properties:-
In laymen’s terms, strength is an indication of how much load a material will withstand before failure and stiffness is how much the material will flex, or deform, when subjected to a given load.

We are not really interested in the ultimate strength of our sub boxes as they seldom fail, so the material strength is of little use. However, we are interested in how much a box will flex. Therefore, we will concentrate on the stiffness of sub box materials.

Eb = Modulus of elasticity in bending.
Eb describes how stiff a material is under bending. The higher the number, the stiffer the material is and the less it will flex. It allows us to easily compare the stiffness of different materials.

The following properties are all based on 18mm sheet materials:

Birch faced ply:-
Eb = 2700 N/mm^2 perpendicular to grain
4600 N/mm^2 parallel to grain
Density = 11.6 kg/m^2

Birch ply:-
Eb = 3400 N/mm^2 perpendicular to grain
4600 N/mm^2 parallel to grain
Density = 12.4 kg/m^2

MDF:-
Eb = 2200 N/mm^2
Density = 10.8 kg/m^2

It can be seen from the above, that the plywood properties are directional depending on the orientation of the grain. For the purposes of this analysis, we can assume the stiffest properties as sub box panels are generally supported on all four edges. MDF is a homgeneous material and the mechanical properties are identical in any direction.

Comparing the Eb values given above it can be seen that the birch based plywood is over twice as stiff as the MDF. Therefore, if two identically sized sub boxes were fabricated, one from 18mm MDF and the other from 18mm birch ply, the MDF box would flex twice as much as the birch ply box.

That’s quite an improvement from simply using a different material for your enclosure.
Of course now you gonna say then why does everyone use MDF for then right? Cost comes into a huge factor here, a 5x5 13ply birch void free will run you $60-80 per sheet.
Old Jun 13, 2008 | 05:47 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by tweetertc
oh yeah.. and another question.. what kind of mic were you using and where did you place it trials.. cause that can make a few decible difference..

and simple box yes.. well designed absolutely.. i saw your design.. whoever did it also tuned the port which is a common mistake with amateur and pro box builders alike..
141.4db was sealed up mic legal placement on 12" from a pillar 3" up. That was on music.

The 142.xx the mic was on the kick sealed up outlaw style. On music also.

In the picture you can see the TL mic on the floor.

I also did a 141.8db burp at a MECA show. They measure at the headrest, so at ear level basically.
Old Jun 13, 2008 | 07:34 PM
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I need to pick up one of those meters Have the same laptop at home btw. After the system is built I'll get the meter. Will hopefully start the build late next week, after I finish a fiberglass enclosure for a 15. I'm not saying it will be spectacular, but I do think it will sound good. Any opinions on Quantum Audio? If they aren't ____ I'll go with their amps instead of Kickers. They put out rated power, but how is the quality?
Old Jun 13, 2008 | 09:30 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by wazzu_coug
Take some time. Learn what the hell you are going to do, before you ask stupid questions like this. Your answer? Never use birch. Never use plywood. ALWAYS use MDF (atleast 3/4")!
WTH? That's bogus, and I hope you've learned something by reading the subsequent posts where people provided more info on birch plywood.


Originally Posted by tweetertc
birch ply is not a bad thing to use but its all a matter of preference... the birch movement has become a rather new thing for subwoofer enclosures... i personally feel that a sub sounds.. hollow in a birch box.. the MDF is cheaper, easier to work with.. thats what i have been using for 6+ years in the car audio field now and thats what i am going to stick with..
No, birch is not a "rather new thing" for subwoofer enclosures, but with your short time ("6+ years") working with them, I guess you wouldn't know that. MDF isn't really easier to work with either, the only real advantage it has over good birch plywood is price. As for a sub sounding "hollow" in a birch plywood box, either the box wasn't built adequately for the application, or it was just psychological, but that wouldn't be surprising, considering your penchant for MDF.
Old Jun 14, 2008 | 07:45 AM
  #77  
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Just waded through this, completely baffled by the kids today thinking MDF is the last word in enclosure construction. MDF is popular because it's cheap, easy to cut, holds an edge, and is acoustically dead (as dead as a wood product can get, anyway). I've used baltic birch many times in the past to great result-- I just don't use it regularly due to cost.

Note to box builders: the "hardwood plywood" sold at places like Home Depot and Lowes is NOT the same as the baltic birch I'd recommend for box building. The good stuff looks like this:



13 plies for the 3/4" and 9 plies for the 1/2" ( I generally stack two 1/2" baffles for the front of the box).

All he birch talk is making me want to rebuild my current MDF box in ply... as it sits now, it weighs 67lbs loaded, even with a footprint under 2sq/ft.
Old Jun 14, 2008 | 05:32 PM
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That's my install

I know practically every type of box(not counting fiberglass or any other form of box that uses molding to form internal volume. this is just for mdf or structured material that is stiff and cannot bend and mold like fiberglass can) that can fit in the tC. I had made a thread about this a long time ago but nobody cared...

The following IS for ported designs-

You can fit up to 3 12s on a baffle, but only 2 12s for adequate air space.
You can fit 2 15s on a baffle, but only 1 for adequate air space.
You can fit up to 5 10s AND for minimum requirements be able to get them in the proper box. 4 10s is the best option instead of 5 in my opinion.
You can fit up to 8 8s and in the proper box as well.

I am running 2 12s off of 4,500w of power and 3 Powermaster batts.
1/0, 2/0 and 3/0 wiring throughout.


The box that was posted from the OP, if you remove your spare tire, you can install it just like how it shows and it will fit fine.

I have all the dimensions here for what will and wont fit back there.
Old Jun 14, 2008 | 06:17 PM
  #79  
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I hope it's as loud as it is unattractive.

No... I hope it's louder than it is ugly. That's more accurate.
Old Jun 14, 2008 | 06:45 PM
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thats one mistake a lot of people make when buying audio equipment. They go after what looks good and have what looks good installed rather then pure performance.

This setup has been demoed for a few people already and are shocked at how good it sounds.

I'm not gonna judge my own install because that would sound conceited but with almost $1,000 worth of SecondSkin deadening in this ride, i can assure you that the only thing coming out of this car when the stereo is on is music and none of that rattle crap you hear from other setups.

At night, ... the car looks WAY different but i am still installing things on it so vids of that is a way from now.

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