GOTTI™'s SAGA | Do you have bearing failure? Tapping? Read!
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wow! i have this exact rattle as well... it is mostly heard while going super slow or around residential areas or parking lots... i always thought it was a normal thing... no?? plus my cars a bsp!! haha... whats the deal with this??? is it really really serious? do i have what u have?
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Scikotics
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The best way for you to self-diagnose it..
Start your car.. sit still, give it just a very very small bit of gas.. you will hear something ticking, rattling or tapping. Mine was very constant.. almost a constant repetition. You will only hear it under a small load or sometimes a larger one. You will also hear it if your driving down the road with your windows down.. its harder to hear with them up or music going.
If you by chance feel as though you do have this issue.. if your financially and physically capiable.. take off any mods that are power related.. goto your dealership and have them do a diagnostic. If your under warranty.. it will be covered.
If you are still having issues or dont understand.. give me a call!
443-257-5395
Gotti.
Hopefully there aren't anymore issues similar to mine.. but then again.. if there is.. I need to know.
Thanks again everyone for keeping an eye out on this issue.
Start your car.. sit still, give it just a very very small bit of gas.. you will hear something ticking, rattling or tapping. Mine was very constant.. almost a constant repetition. You will only hear it under a small load or sometimes a larger one. You will also hear it if your driving down the road with your windows down.. its harder to hear with them up or music going.
If you by chance feel as though you do have this issue.. if your financially and physically capiable.. take off any mods that are power related.. goto your dealership and have them do a diagnostic. If your under warranty.. it will be covered.
If you are still having issues or dont understand.. give me a call!
443-257-5395
Gotti.
Hopefully there aren't anymore issues similar to mine.. but then again.. if there is.. I need to know.
Thanks again everyone for keeping an eye out on this issue.
Thread Starter
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Scikotics
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Posts: 3,720
Originally Posted by WeaponR_Ray
Stu, did you get my last email regarding this matter? I sent it before we went on Christmas holiday.
Stu
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Scikotics
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Posts: 9,731
From: Minneapolis, MN
For those interested, there are a few traits associated with "knocks".
A rod knock is usually most pronounced between 2500 - 3500 rpm. That doesnt mean that is the only time it is happening, but you can usually hear them more around that engine speed. If you hold the engine in that range and feather the throttle a bit you many times will hear it worse. You can also hold the engine at around 3000 rpm and then back off and hear a rattle as well. As a rod knock becomes worse, you will begin hearing a double knock a lot of the time (knock going up and down in the stroke). Rod knocks are typically more of a hammer-on-metal sort of sound if that makes sense. A rod knocking will typically get worse relatively quick (meaning you arent going to drive 30,000 miles and it stay the same).
Piston slap can sound a little like a knock, only a little more random sounding. It is caused by a piston skirt being collapsed or broken, which causes the piston to "wobble" during its travel. So it most times will sound much faster than the engine speed.
For those unfamiliar, your crank (the part the the rods are connected to) is held into the block by the Main Bearings. These bearings are not the ball-type bearings you may think of. They are machined peices of metal (they almost look like thick shims) that the crank sits in. Oil provideds the lubrication between them and the crank. So when they say an engine "spun a main", they mean just that. The bearing was not being lubricated or in some other way spun with the crank inside the main caps.
The rods are held to the crank with the same type of bearing. The rod "cap" is the portion of the circular rod ending that is removed to disconnect the rod from the crank.
the "wrist pin" is the pin that is pressed through the piston and rod to hold the piston in place. It is much more rare to see knocks due to bad wrist pins on newer engines.
Just thought I would add this for those that may not be familiar with what everything looks like inside the engine. There are a lot of things that can cause knocks. Poor oiling, poorly engineered parts, improper torquing of main or rod cap bolts, bearings machined to the wrong thickness, etc.
Also, keep in mind that an engine makes a good deal of internal noise on its own.. so if you go listening for it you may start to "hear knocks". If you think so, dont panic, take it in to be looked at. If you are still under warranty you "Should" be ok. I know some dealers have and are trying to screw people, so make sure you always cover yourself in the areas of maintenance and which parts you put on. I also reccomend asking the tech to leave it torn down and physically show you the damage he reports back if they have to tear it down.
A short block runs (if I remember correctly) about $1300 new for a 2azfe motor.I believe you can buy one rebuilt for around $800. It should not take more than 3 days for a skilled tech to swap it out. But, many times you have to deal with paying the book time, so I am not sure what they rate it at. Just make sure to verify the numbers given to you if they try to charge you. If they wont warranty it and you cant fight it, go to a good private shop, you will usually end up paying half what the dealer charges you if you have a shady dealer. I would not expect to pay much more that $2200 to R&R a short block on one of these. If you have a lift, pulling the engine isnt as bad as it seems on the newer FWD cars.
Sorry for the long writing here.. just thought this may be useful to a few.
A rod knock is usually most pronounced between 2500 - 3500 rpm. That doesnt mean that is the only time it is happening, but you can usually hear them more around that engine speed. If you hold the engine in that range and feather the throttle a bit you many times will hear it worse. You can also hold the engine at around 3000 rpm and then back off and hear a rattle as well. As a rod knock becomes worse, you will begin hearing a double knock a lot of the time (knock going up and down in the stroke). Rod knocks are typically more of a hammer-on-metal sort of sound if that makes sense. A rod knocking will typically get worse relatively quick (meaning you arent going to drive 30,000 miles and it stay the same).
Piston slap can sound a little like a knock, only a little more random sounding. It is caused by a piston skirt being collapsed or broken, which causes the piston to "wobble" during its travel. So it most times will sound much faster than the engine speed.
For those unfamiliar, your crank (the part the the rods are connected to) is held into the block by the Main Bearings. These bearings are not the ball-type bearings you may think of. They are machined peices of metal (they almost look like thick shims) that the crank sits in. Oil provideds the lubrication between them and the crank. So when they say an engine "spun a main", they mean just that. The bearing was not being lubricated or in some other way spun with the crank inside the main caps.
The rods are held to the crank with the same type of bearing. The rod "cap" is the portion of the circular rod ending that is removed to disconnect the rod from the crank.
the "wrist pin" is the pin that is pressed through the piston and rod to hold the piston in place. It is much more rare to see knocks due to bad wrist pins on newer engines.
Just thought I would add this for those that may not be familiar with what everything looks like inside the engine. There are a lot of things that can cause knocks. Poor oiling, poorly engineered parts, improper torquing of main or rod cap bolts, bearings machined to the wrong thickness, etc.
Also, keep in mind that an engine makes a good deal of internal noise on its own.. so if you go listening for it you may start to "hear knocks". If you think so, dont panic, take it in to be looked at. If you are still under warranty you "Should" be ok. I know some dealers have and are trying to screw people, so make sure you always cover yourself in the areas of maintenance and which parts you put on. I also reccomend asking the tech to leave it torn down and physically show you the damage he reports back if they have to tear it down.
A short block runs (if I remember correctly) about $1300 new for a 2azfe motor.I believe you can buy one rebuilt for around $800. It should not take more than 3 days for a skilled tech to swap it out. But, many times you have to deal with paying the book time, so I am not sure what they rate it at. Just make sure to verify the numbers given to you if they try to charge you. If they wont warranty it and you cant fight it, go to a good private shop, you will usually end up paying half what the dealer charges you if you have a shady dealer. I would not expect to pay much more that $2200 to R&R a short block on one of these. If you have a lift, pulling the engine isnt as bad as it seems on the newer FWD cars.
Sorry for the long writing here.. just thought this may be useful to a few.
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Scikotics
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Posts: 3,720
Very informative.. that is what these boards are all about.. especially this thread!I just want to let everyone know, I have been working with Weapon R in regards to this issue. Let me first express this..
The problem associated with my car was not the result of the Weapon R Secret Weapon Short Ram Intake.
Ray Fong and I have been communicating via email in regards to this issue. Weapon R has offered me 50% of what I paid for labor, you do the math. I would like to let everyone know that I am very happy that Weapon R could take care of their customers, even though they really didn't have to do anything. With the amount of evidence that I had, and the lack of information.. technically speaking, they didn't have to give me anything.. but.. since this whole situation was handled like it should have been.. Out of publics eye, they graciously have agreed to help me out.
I just want to thank Ray Fong and everyone from Weapon R or anyone that is directly assocaited with them for their superb customer care and their wonderful understanding and co-operation.
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Scikotics
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Posts: 9,731
From: Minneapolis, MN
WOW! I have to say I am impressed with WR on this! I admit I have been a little skeptical of them before, but this does definitely change that a bit. The only thing I would say is that it would hurt your chances of being re-imbursed through toyota, but it looks like your dealer kind of messed that up for you anyway. But if I remember correctly, you were billed around $2000, so a grand is pretty nice of WR to offer!
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Scikotics
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Exactly.. and from what I understand.. that doesn't mess up anything in regards to Toyota.. I can easily go after them for the other portion of the bill. If they are in fact at fault, due to faulty bearings, etc., then in court with enough evidence.. I would get the other 50%. The guys from ZPI were telling me that they have been trying to get some bearings for a build they are doing.. they have been having an issue getting them.. they said they were out of stock or something to that nature... I found that odd. They are supposed to be calling me sometime.. they want to talk to me about this whole thing. I am going to be going over to ProMotion on Saturday or Friday.. I would like to see where we stand with any type of legal action.
But.. I'm stoked that WR came through.. they have my upmost respect as a business.. and I will continue to do business with them.. as should everyone else.
But.. I'm stoked that WR came through.. they have my upmost respect as a business.. and I will continue to do business with them.. as should everyone else.
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Hi. I've lurked here for a long time, but had to chime in on this one. I've been working on cars since I was a little kid and was in the car business for years. I bought a brand new tC last week, just because it's an incredibly cool car. Anyway, the post below is PERFECT. Whoever engifineer is, he really knows exactly what he's talking about.
Originally Posted by engifineer
For those interested, there are a few traits associated with "knocks".
A rod knock is usually most pronounced between 2500 - 3500 rpm. That doesnt mean that is the only time it is happening, but you can usually hear them more around that engine speed. If you hold the engine in that range and feather the throttle a bit you many times will hear it worse. You can also hold the engine at around 3000 rpm and then back off and hear a rattle as well. As a rod knock becomes worse, you will begin hearing a double knock a lot of the time (knock going up and down in the stroke). Rod knocks are typically more of a hammer-on-metal sort of sound if that makes sense. A rod knocking will typically get worse relatively quick (meaning you arent going to drive 30,000 miles and it stay the same).
Piston slap can sound a little like a knock, only a little more random sounding. It is caused by a piston skirt being collapsed or broken, which causes the piston to "wobble" during its travel. So it most times will sound much faster than the engine speed.
For those unfamiliar, your crank (the part the the rods are connected to) is held into the block by the Main Bearings. These bearings are not the ball-type bearings you may think of. They are machined peices of metal (they almost look like thick shims) that the crank sits in. Oil provideds the lubrication between them and the crank. So when they say an engine "spun a main", they mean just that. The bearing was not being lubricated or in some other way spun with the crank inside the main caps.
The rods are held to the crank with the same type of bearing. The rod "cap" is the portion of the circular rod ending that is removed to disconnect the rod from the crank.
the "wrist pin" is the pin that is pressed through the piston and rod to hold the piston in place. It is much more rare to see knocks due to bad wrist pins on newer engines.
Just thought I would add this for those that may not be familiar with what everything looks like inside the engine. There are a lot of things that can cause knocks. Poor oiling, poorly engineered parts, improper torquing of main or rod cap bolts, bearings machined to the wrong thickness, etc.
Also, keep in mind that an engine makes a good deal of internal noise on its own.. so if you go listening for it you may start to "hear knocks". If you think so, dont panic, take it in to be looked at. If you are still under warranty you "Should" be ok. I know some dealers have and are trying to screw people, so make sure you always cover yourself in the areas of maintenance and which parts you put on. I also reccomend asking the tech to leave it torn down and physically show you the damage he reports back if they have to tear it down.
A short block runs (if I remember correctly) about $1300 new for a 2azfe motor.I believe you can buy one rebuilt for around $800. It should not take more than 3 days for a skilled tech to swap it out. But, many times you have to deal with paying the book time, so I am not sure what they rate it at. Just make sure to verify the numbers given to you if they try to charge you. If they wont warranty it and you cant fight it, go to a good private shop, you will usually end up paying half what the dealer charges you if you have a shady dealer. I would not expect to pay much more that $2200 to R&R a short block on one of these. If you have a lift, pulling the engine isnt as bad as it seems on the newer FWD cars.
Sorry for the long writing here.. just thought this may be useful to a few.
A rod knock is usually most pronounced between 2500 - 3500 rpm. That doesnt mean that is the only time it is happening, but you can usually hear them more around that engine speed. If you hold the engine in that range and feather the throttle a bit you many times will hear it worse. You can also hold the engine at around 3000 rpm and then back off and hear a rattle as well. As a rod knock becomes worse, you will begin hearing a double knock a lot of the time (knock going up and down in the stroke). Rod knocks are typically more of a hammer-on-metal sort of sound if that makes sense. A rod knocking will typically get worse relatively quick (meaning you arent going to drive 30,000 miles and it stay the same).
Piston slap can sound a little like a knock, only a little more random sounding. It is caused by a piston skirt being collapsed or broken, which causes the piston to "wobble" during its travel. So it most times will sound much faster than the engine speed.
For those unfamiliar, your crank (the part the the rods are connected to) is held into the block by the Main Bearings. These bearings are not the ball-type bearings you may think of. They are machined peices of metal (they almost look like thick shims) that the crank sits in. Oil provideds the lubrication between them and the crank. So when they say an engine "spun a main", they mean just that. The bearing was not being lubricated or in some other way spun with the crank inside the main caps.
The rods are held to the crank with the same type of bearing. The rod "cap" is the portion of the circular rod ending that is removed to disconnect the rod from the crank.
the "wrist pin" is the pin that is pressed through the piston and rod to hold the piston in place. It is much more rare to see knocks due to bad wrist pins on newer engines.
Just thought I would add this for those that may not be familiar with what everything looks like inside the engine. There are a lot of things that can cause knocks. Poor oiling, poorly engineered parts, improper torquing of main or rod cap bolts, bearings machined to the wrong thickness, etc.
Also, keep in mind that an engine makes a good deal of internal noise on its own.. so if you go listening for it you may start to "hear knocks". If you think so, dont panic, take it in to be looked at. If you are still under warranty you "Should" be ok. I know some dealers have and are trying to screw people, so make sure you always cover yourself in the areas of maintenance and which parts you put on. I also reccomend asking the tech to leave it torn down and physically show you the damage he reports back if they have to tear it down.
A short block runs (if I remember correctly) about $1300 new for a 2azfe motor.I believe you can buy one rebuilt for around $800. It should not take more than 3 days for a skilled tech to swap it out. But, many times you have to deal with paying the book time, so I am not sure what they rate it at. Just make sure to verify the numbers given to you if they try to charge you. If they wont warranty it and you cant fight it, go to a good private shop, you will usually end up paying half what the dealer charges you if you have a shady dealer. I would not expect to pay much more that $2200 to R&R a short block on one of these. If you have a lift, pulling the engine isnt as bad as it seems on the newer FWD cars.
Sorry for the long writing here.. just thought this may be useful to a few.
Thread Starter
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Scikotics
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,720
Yes he does... "enginfeer" "ScionDad" "WeDriveScions" and a whole crap load more all know their ****.. they def have my respect and my attention whenever they give up info.. very knowledgeable bunch on here. Sorry if I missed anyone on that short shout out!
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Scikotics
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,731
From: Minneapolis, MN
thanks for the compliments.. but I have to give credit where it is due to my father, who has been a professional mechanic for almost 40 years and has had me turning wrenches since I was old enough to hold one as well as fixing all my own. He went from working on ditributor run, mechanical fuel pump systems to being one hell of a diagnostician today (taking a lot of work that others cannot figure out, including some dealers). So I have to give him a hell of a lot of credit for knowing and keeping up with his s#!t and teaching me over the years! I do agree that there are many others on here that really know thier stuff. Besides some of the bickering that occurs, there is a lot of great knowledge to be gathered on here. ScionDad, wedrivescions and others as mentioned are great guys and add a ton of knowledge to these boards. Thats what these forums are here for!
thanks stu
Thread Starter
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Scikotics
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,720
Toyota of Southern Maryland in Lexington Park.
If your hearing it every now and then... odds are.. its not what I had wrong. If you turn off your stereo and roll your windows down.. park the car... give it just the slightest bit of gas.. if it makes a constant knocking sound.. you might have the same issue as me. Your best bet is to just get it checked out if you know that your warranty is good Keep me posted on your decision.. I am gathering names, VIN#'s, etc... I think some, maybe a bunch of cars could have gotten a bad batch of parts.
If your hearing it every now and then... odds are.. its not what I had wrong. If you turn off your stereo and roll your windows down.. park the car... give it just the slightest bit of gas.. if it makes a constant knocking sound.. you might have the same issue as me. Your best bet is to just get it checked out if you know that your warranty is good
Keep me posted on your decision.. I am gathering names, VIN#'s, etc... I think some, maybe a bunch of cars could have gotten a bad batch of parts.