Alright, I think this is where I step in.

tC + all my mods (I've pretty much done everything except speakers) = roughly $27,000. Results - A reliable, daily driven, 21city/34hwy MPG, 287WHP (roughly 350 crank..just to compare), barely depreciating, coupe. If sold, including part out, I could get around $19,000 (low balling @ $4,000 for all my mods)

or

Mustang = $24,000 (like you stated). - A reliable, daily driven, 15city/23hwy MPG, 230WHP(on a high reading DynoJet) (300 crank), heavily depreciating, sports car. If sold, would go for around $12,000 in today's market.

So comparing to the Mustang, which you pointed out, I would have paid about $4,000 more, for worse gas mileage, 40 less WHP, 600 extra pounds, and wouldn't have had the satisfaction of building a car.

 

Dead horse says: "I still own the car." "Ive been a member of Scion Life for 3 years." "My profile was locked a while back, but Ive been here for a long time."

Not a very good argument to just dismiss the speaker, but, go right ahead.

The arguments for Pure-price seem to be:

1. Scion barely breaks even anyway (proof?)
2. Its the best price that you can get (proof?)
3. Other cars are just over-priced to begin with (I think we can all agree).
4. Quit whining.
5. Go away.
6. Civics are for chicks.
7. Go take an economics course.

Im not convinced. No one has really addressed the issue of other companies giving better in-house financing. I have not heard anything persuasive to the effect of the first two arguments. "Ive worked at a car dealership and I 'know'" does not really do it for me.

I pointed out that Toyota is going to cut prices across the board and was just told that Scion is not Toyota, which is true, but Scion may follow suit. This argument was just dismissed and not addressed.

Im not going to sit here quoting my resume making un-proven statements like some. I just dont feel that any of the arguments for pure price have been substantiated with anything more than "I know" statements and this belief that what Scion puts out in the way of rationalizing pure-price is necessarily true.

 

How much is your time worth?

What I mean, that although some do it as a hobby and know how to do everything themselves; what would it cost you to add all of those mods?

Im pretty handy around a car, but I would not put on a turbo myself. I would need help and if I could not get it done for free, what would it cost to have someone do a good job of putting a turbo in w/ management?

Further, how reliable is a turbo-job over time. A mustang that I just used for reference will drive reliably (?) for many miles, a Tc making that kind of power, while reliable, will likeky need alot more maintenance.

 

Go to KBB.com and see what they say the suggested retail value of a 2008 5-spd tC with 10,000 is. Actually, let me just tell you. $16,680. The original MSRP when the car was brand new, was $17,670. So of your 7 'arguements', 6 of them have just been blown out the window, and the only one that wasn't, is negated by argument #3.

 

I just told you, roughly $27,000 including the price of a new tC. And added maintenance? lol. If everything is done the right way, there is BARELY any added maintenance. The only thing I've had to do since I installed my turbo, was an oil change and swap spark plugs. And I'm at 287WHP. To compete with the Mustang, the tC only needs about 220WHP, which is pathetically easy to achieve. You can buy a tC, not know a damn thing about cars, get the TRD S/C and an exhaust, installed by a shop, and you'll be over 200. And with that, you're barely breaking into the 20's.

And the time I've invested in my car doesn't even come to close to the satisfaction I get every time I hit boost.

 

Ive got a pampered 2006 5-speed w/ 23k miles on it. Ive got the sills, the pedals, the spoiler, the sub, the fog-lights, the floor mats and the TRD drop in filter. Paid $19k new.

Ive been offered b/w 10,000-11,000 for a trade. I bet I possibly could sell it to a 3rd party for $12k.

 

#1: Not my fault you paid out your ___ for all that stuff. You basically paid $3,000 for $700 worth of mods.
#2 : Your car is 3 years old, not 1 like the example I made.
#3 : Yes, your car is only worth about $11,500 trade-in. Losing $5,000 in value over 3 years is barely anything.

From the sound of things, pure pricing didn't rip you off. You ripped yourself off by buying all that crap at the dealer.

 

I didn't dismiss you lawyer to be boy.
I said that you were not going to be convinced because you are not willing to have a discussion but a debate. You know the difference.
If I get you across from me in front of the bench I will be very happy to dance and debate with you but I have my job to do, as you will soon.

So if you leave the wonderful state of Oklahoma and my favorite place in the world Keystone Lake and come to the flatlands here in the Land of Lincoln I will be happy for us to match verbal thrusts and parry.

Again you are not the target audience anymore and have caused a debate but bring no real helpful discussion.

To remain on topic please show cost analysis with 2,3,4, and 5 year breakdown with insurance and maintenance costs showing the true cost to own on the tC and alternative vehicles you are recommending.

Ignoring that Baskin and Robbins makes many flavors of ice cream for the variety of tastes in the world, we will focus only on your value argument of Pure Price versus a negiotiated free market pricing.

FYI, Intellichoice.com already brakes down cost of ownership, operating costs, resale value etc.

Guess what; not a single vehicle we have mentioned (tC, Si, Civic EX, G37) made the grade and placed as best. The Fit, Aveo *cough,gasp* , did place as best, why?

Because the are so cheap to purchase to begin with, just like the tC is THOUSANDS cheaper to begin with than many of its competitors. If we look at initial cost of your purchase plus any repair work and oil changes,etc. versus the Si you like from a similar price period do you know what will happen... the tC will be cheaper by the same thousands you started with even with the trade values included.

So the reason to buy the tC or the Si is still... because YOU like it more.

I am not going to debate you further and discuss it, well we just did.

Close and lock this thread please I need to go make the money.

<Finishes dumping horse carcus in trash bin and leaves>

 

Fair. My argument mainly went to buying a new Tc today. I dont have the invoice in front of my but I believe that the sticker was 17 something, and I paud about $1500 for scion accessories. Thus, the car lost about $9k in value in really 2.5 years.

Whether that is good or not, I personally dont know. I know American cars, which I would never buy for quality reasons depreciate alot.

The trade-in value issue was more of a sub-argument to my main point that you over-pay up front whether you drive the car into the ground or not.

Never told me how much your time is worth???

 

This is the second time you've completely missed an entire sentence.

 

For the record, I do work part time on top of being a full time student. 60+ hour weeks baby.

 

Turbo or not, its still a 2 door corolla. I get a boost thrill when I eat taco bell.

 

Which brings me to another point. I started a thread about a year ago under my old screen name when I was thinking about dropping some loot on a turbo kit for the Tc. I asked, why spend so much money on kind of a plain car to get the power that you could just get buying a more expensive car to begin with.

My example was, why drop $6k for a turbo/management, ect, when you could just go pickup a used 350z or S2000 or something?

Thus, turbo or not, your still driving a Tc.

 

Aww, now it just sounds like you're butt-hurt.

 

Nope. Im not butt-hurt by the fact that you turboed an economy car.

 

I guess you'll never understand. Built > Bought.


Now another thing. What's worse, driving a turbo tC and having a power-to-weight ratio that rivals Corvettes, or spending $40,000 on a new Evo/STi/370Z and end up getting decimated a cheap econobox?

 

I entirely agree with you. I would rather buy power than build power.

 

Back again.
Glad to see we are still yammering away.
Jake
Your MSRP was $17,650 +$1500 add ons =$19,150

Invoice $16,539 + aprox $1,200 for add ons =$17,739

No 2% dealer holdback
No Wholesale financial reserve
No Floor plan assistance

Toyota 2006 prospectus for stockholders indicates a profit per vehicle at under $1000 per unit. One of the lowest next to the Tercel introduction in the 1980s. reading between the lines it cost them 93% of the invoice to build and ship. THAT COST HAS ONLY GONE UP with fuel prices and reduced vehicle production reducing cost per car production values.

Your vehicle has a trade value of $10,000 to $11,000 maybe a little more depending on the mods preference in your area.

$19,150 - 10,000 ( lowest trade value which you said you had) = $9150

or 52% of original MSRP for an a three model year old car.
That percentage is sick most vehicle are in the 38%-45% range currently.

Guess what, if we looked up a Civic Si owner that added $1500 of extras to his/her car and looked at trading it in, their resale is 48%

Also you are ignorant when you keep saying the tC is a two door Corolla.
What is similar...
the engine, nope
the transmission series, nope though they are both automatic or manual available
the platform, nope everything is different there too
the wheel base,nope
the length, height, the width, nope all three times
made at the same factory, nope
same glass maybe, nope again
same abs brake hardware or wiring harness, close but nope and we have pioneer with a different harness on the radio
there may be a battery tie down or a headlamp pug that is the same but
basically one is beef the other chicken

Jake, go to class. I am done playing with you.
Buy the Si because YOU like it.
Buy another tC because YOU like it.

Pure Price has worked well as a fresh approach to marketing a product to a new segment of the market. It already worked in your case. You are growing up and maybe like the tC for other reasons or not.

Again in discussion you are horrible and have provided a silly statement to start us off and ZERO to this discussion since.

As a debater you rank with my 10 year old which is pretty good as he worked me for taco bell after church but only after iratating the entire family.

Is that a comment to you about you, maybe.

I am stopping the follow this thread on my email
so everyone as Red Green says, "Keep your stick on the ice, we are all in this together."

 

Actually, the xD (not mentioned, but still felt like throwing it out there) is a better value than the Fit Sport (5-year ownership) by a few hundred dollars, but since it's not in the same category, they gave the award to the Fit S. They classify the xD as a Subcompact and the fit as a Compact. The biggest factor between the two, was the depreciation. The Fit S would depreciate $5,500 over 5 years, the xD, only $4,500.

 

Scion was marketed for younger buyers.
When i mine in 2005, I pay 16,500 before tax for my 06 tc.
If you like better performance car. Then the Scion was not for you.
I and most of Scion 'enthusiasts' on SL love to mod the Scion.
Sure you can get better car. But you can't get the same satisfaction of installing mods yourself.

Modding is not for everyone. It is an addiction of the love for the cars.
Someone here spend $60k in mods and sold the tc for less than $30
You can't expect to get the money spend on mods back.

I like the pure pricing. " Take it" or " Leave It" attitude.
I hate haggling for the price. It is waste of my time, (just like you wouldn't install the mods yourself)

When the tC was $16K, that price was hard to beat by competitors.
Now it is at $17,670. because they have to do improvement every year. such as wind deflector recall. and other things we don't know about.
That higher price might even the competition a little. It is still a good value. If you can find a 160 hp "reliable" import car. More power to you.

I believe Dealership get flat rate of $450 for each scion they sale.

Last thing, DON'T CALL MY TC A 2 DOOR "COROLLA" !!

It is a 2 door Camry!!!