Lance is right. A floating spring in the rear really is not a good idea. And there is a HUGE difference between a "floating" set of coils, and airbags with floating cups.

A spring has a specific load rating. That spring is in compression at all times. It is extremely rare that a traditional coil spring will end up in a state of tension. The springs are designed so that even if the do get into a position where tension is possible they don't get to a point where they could actually pop out of position.

With an air spring you have a device capable of variable loading. If you have very little air pressure in a spring and the suspension becomes unloaded, you could easily pop a cup out of it's seat. Whereas if you had more pressure in the air spring, it would not want to dislodge it's self.

 

Ok I have a quick guestion and i dont know if anyone has said anything about this yet or not? But if I run 17s on my xb after its bagged will I need to make a bracket for the bumper/fender? I have 18s right now but I might be down sizing.

 

I haven't actually bagged one myself yet. But from everything I have seen on this forum and elsewhere, you do not need to remove the inner fenders, or create any additional custom brackets.

Of course, none of the kits out there actually lay the xB all the way out. If you were to lay all the way out, what you had to modify would depend greatly on your choice of wheels.

 

bagged on 18's ----->LINK

 

Do i have to pre-drill the holes for the "self tapping screws"?

 

I would do a small pilot hole just to make your life a little easier....

 

I'm going to just call phil and see how he did his

 

Yes I know his is bagged on 18s and he had to make brackets for the front bumper. Do you have to do it with 17s.

 

This is one of the reasons I choose to use Airlifts rear kit. I didn't want to have to worry about them coming unseated.

But I still believe that the way airlift has you install them is doomed. They have the bag bolted to the top bracket that bolts to the frame, and then holes drilled in the bottom spring cup, bolting the bag to the bottom as well. At full lift this forces the sleeve bag into an arch shape, which causes wear on the back side of the top band on the bag. I went though 8 bags installed the way they said to install it (even have a modified Allen wrench so I can swap the rear bags with out pulling the bracket off the frame). None of these bags ever last more then 2 weeks max. The last set I bolted to the top and left the bolts out of the bottom, it lets the bag shift a little when it lifts, so that it stays more upright, and alot less arch shaped. I am far from an expert, but I don't see how a sleeve bag could ever last long with an uneven pulling tension on it. I don't think these types of bags are built to be used in anything other then a straight lift situation.

Leaving these bottom bolts out of the airlift seems to be the best option for me. It works without blowing out all the time and I can jack the car up without having to worry about the bags falling out. The airlift bag has the fitting in the center of the bottom so it helps keep the bag lined up when you unload the suspension.

A set of Airlift brackets modified to use convoluted bags & a set of cups for the bottom would be the best setup in my mind. If I ever blow my sleeves again, I’ll buy a set of regular bags and modify these brackets to work

I just think airlift didn’t design or test the rear setup very well, I am far from an expert with bags but it just seem very brain dead.

 

fbi rear brackets are bolted in, yes the bag sits upside down and the upper mounts are held in by 4 self tapping screws which are kind of a pain, and the lower (top part of bag /upsidedown) has 2 studs built on the brackets that go through existing holes on the lower perch, nut n bolt

 

anyone have problems with the bags being upside down?? I would image that eventually that would lead to some leak issues as the fittings and airline for the rear bag are shifting with the articulation of the rear eventually causing a leak at the fittings....dunno just a thought...

 

Ive been running the FBi brackets and backs upside with no problems what so ever letting the top cup float in the upper spring perch..

One of the main reasons I did floating is to allow the bag to correct itself and not twist.. even though generally the bellowed bags wont twist there is a chance..

No problems using floating here..

And Alot of Trucks and Even Cars Use floating cups..

Newer style mustangs on certain kits use floating on both side to me which is crazy dangerious but I know several people and even installed one with no problems at all and has been riding for years now with it like that

On the XB with the Bottom bolted the lower perch the bag is not going anywhere.. If you do happen to get in that awkard up turn situation where you loose footing on the wheel the bag will only come out if you are running really low in the first place..

but like i said ive had no troubles and absolutely love the FBI and SS over the ES kit I had.. just like Spider I was blowing those sleeve bags left and right

 

Thanks for the uplifting words man

Damn i need to get the other parts i want this shiz on

 

Im still trying to get pics for everyone again but sadly its been reallllly cold and wet here

Hopefully we will get a nice warm day where i can go get some pics

 

I'm waitin' dude, drive down here and take some pics!

 

You and your always warm weather..


Im not that far from the Florida Line but its cold as all get out here and the rain isnt helping any

 

The comments Spider made about the sleeve bags in the rear were dead on. It is just unfortunate that he has had to learn this the hard way. Sleeve bags can be an excellent choice for rear suspensions. Given that it is the right type of rear suspension.

Unfortunately, the xB's "torsion beam" isn't the right type of suspension. The problem with the xB's torsion beam is that the beam or "axle" is fixed to the trailing arms. The logic behind this is fine, assuming you are using a traditional fixed coil spring suspension. This is the equivalent to what most people call a "2 link" in the custom suspension world. One of the WORST "designs" out there.

Because the trailing arms are fixed to the torsion beam, instead of being attached with bushings, the torsion beam can not act independently of the trailing arms. However many degrees the tailing arms rotate, the torsion beam rotates. And when you replace the stock coil spring with a sleeve style air spring you are in for bad news. (As many have learned.)

Sleeve style air springs are not designed to flex side to side. They are meant for applications where they are either exactly linear, or very close to it. This is why a convoluted spring is a better choice for our application. This style of air spring is meant to flex as much as 30 degrees in any direction!

Though in choosing a double convoluted spring over a sleeve spring you have to be careful. Double convoluted springs have higher spring ratings than most sleeve bags. We are fortunate that in our application a "2500 lbs." bag seems to work fine. I am sure it was this consideration of load rating that made the suspension designers at Airlift choose the sleeve bag over a convoluted bag. What they neglected to take into consideration were the long term affect of applying stresses to the air spring that it was never designed to withstand.

And no, I am not anywhere near a suspension expert. I just play one in this newsgroup. ;)

 

I spoke with Bryan up at ES regarding there sleeve bags and asked them why they choose the Sleeve Style over a bellowed style bag and he really didnt have an asnwer. He did mention that they tried a regular bag but were not happy with the results so they switched over to the Sleeve style..

But the funny thing is on mine when I had there rear brackets and sleeve's I only had trouble with the Drivers Side and it seemed to ware a hole in the same place everytime.. out of 3-4 replacements only 1 actually came out from underneath the Top Pressure Ring but all the others all had holes worn in them.. My Psg side on the other hand never popped a single time. When I finally Took the Kit off and sent it back to them for a refund I sent them the Broken Drivers side and the orignal Psg side bag. I finally got my refund about a week or so ago from them.. They are great people but they need to learn from all the problems people have been having like Spider and Myself and create a kit that actually works..

 

I don't know who is designing Airlift's products for them now. For the longest time they had a guy named Bill Dermond (Roadsurfer) doing that. He was located up in Washington. They had a parting of ways back around 2002 though. To hear Bill tell it, he was the man behind the success of the company. Knowing Bill's track record after Airlift, I highly doubt it.

I know for a while they were working with PMA http://pmamotorsports.com on some stuff. But I don't know if they actually designed any kits. I have no idea who is doing their design work now. It could very well be some kid straight out of Wyotech for all I know.

Now that isn't to say they are a bad company. I spoke with one of their reps. for quite a while at SEMA this year. And they do offer quality products. Maybe not the best in the industry, but quality none the less. I will be using Airlift front struts when it comes time to bag the wife's box.

 

Weirdly enough most of my failures were on the drivers side as well. But I have had both sides fail, so who knows.

I've heard some about who designed the airlift kit for them, but since I don't know the people involved or if my information is even close to correct I'll keep it to myself.