View Poll Results: Would you consider a CXR turbo kit if the problems were fixed?
For ~$1600? Sure I would.
7
58.33%
Maybe
2
16.67%
Doubtful
2
16.67%
I only buy American parts for my Japanese car!
1
8.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll
Would you buy a CXR turbo kit if...
11-21-2009, 01:47 AM
#1
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Would you buy a CXR turbo kit if...
... it included a thick wall 304 log manifold like Dezod's and everything bolted up with no mods necessary?
For background, the kit I received several months back was missing a few parts but Kevin quickly shipped them out the same day. He also sent me some extra items for free and let me keep the extra DP, etc. No waiting until he received my parts for exchange.
The bad:
The manifold was garbage and only lasted few months. The MAF holder had to be reamed out and an adapter plate made to attach the MAF securely. The downpipe came with a 2.25" V-band coupler welded on but it needed to be 2.5". Kevin had a new DP to me within a few days. The intake pipe blocks access to the fuse panel. OE battery doesn't fit, need to replace with Optima, 26R or similar. Smaller than advertised Chinacharger, internal WG. The BOV is a Greddy knock-off but works fine. No ceramic or powder coating options. No air filter included.
The good:
The entire kit fit very well aside from the above problems. The SMIC is a good size for <300whp, the mounting brackets were perfect, the location gets better airflow than it may appear and a TRD CAI vent would make it even better. The pipes are good quality polished AL with bead-rolled ends. The included 4-ply silicone couplers and SS T-bolt clamps are good quality. The DS radiator hose replacement gets the oe hose out of the way and looks good too. The Greddy Type S KO works just fine and it's purple! No air filter included (this will make it easier to get the AEM Dry-Flo that you know you want)
IMO, and I've told Kevin this several times, this could be a very good starter kit for someone looking to get into boost fairly inexpensively. Just add gauges, 410-450cc injectors and keep the boost low (4-6psi) for 200whp of fun. The little turbo is small enough to run w/o EM at low boost and HP levels. Add a piggyback later on as budget allows and crank up the boost for even more fun. Save up for a better turbo down the road and I see no reason why this kit couldn't produce 300whp.
I'm not asking this on Kevin's behalf, I'm just curious to see if SL'ers might consider this kit if the problems were fixed and it was an easy bolt-on. AFAIK Kevin has fixed the DP and MAF holder and he claims to have a new manifold in the works. I'm waiting to hear back about the pipe wall thickness but Kevin described the new mani as being made from "extruded industrial stainless pipe". TIG welded as are all CXR pipes.
Keep in mind that with the $1500 you'd save vs the Descendant tuner kit, you could get a top brand BB T3/T04E and use the little chinacharger as a paperweight or doorstop.
For background, the kit I received several months back was missing a few parts but Kevin quickly shipped them out the same day. He also sent me some extra items for free and let me keep the extra DP, etc. No waiting until he received my parts for exchange.
The bad:
The manifold was garbage and only lasted few months. The MAF holder had to be reamed out and an adapter plate made to attach the MAF securely. The downpipe came with a 2.25" V-band coupler welded on but it needed to be 2.5". Kevin had a new DP to me within a few days. The intake pipe blocks access to the fuse panel. OE battery doesn't fit, need to replace with Optima, 26R or similar. Smaller than advertised Chinacharger, internal WG. The BOV is a Greddy knock-off but works fine. No ceramic or powder coating options. No air filter included.
The good:
The entire kit fit very well aside from the above problems. The SMIC is a good size for <300whp, the mounting brackets were perfect, the location gets better airflow than it may appear and a TRD CAI vent would make it even better. The pipes are good quality polished AL with bead-rolled ends. The included 4-ply silicone couplers and SS T-bolt clamps are good quality. The DS radiator hose replacement gets the oe hose out of the way and looks good too. The Greddy Type S KO works just fine and it's purple! No air filter included (this will make it easier to get the AEM Dry-Flo that you know you want)
IMO, and I've told Kevin this several times, this could be a very good starter kit for someone looking to get into boost fairly inexpensively. Just add gauges, 410-450cc injectors and keep the boost low (4-6psi) for 200whp of fun. The little turbo is small enough to run w/o EM at low boost and HP levels. Add a piggyback later on as budget allows and crank up the boost for even more fun. Save up for a better turbo down the road and I see no reason why this kit couldn't produce 300whp.
I'm not asking this on Kevin's behalf, I'm just curious to see if SL'ers might consider this kit if the problems were fixed and it was an easy bolt-on. AFAIK Kevin has fixed the DP and MAF holder and he claims to have a new manifold in the works. I'm waiting to hear back about the pipe wall thickness but Kevin described the new mani as being made from "extruded industrial stainless pipe". TIG welded as are all CXR pipes.
Keep in mind that with the $1500 you'd save vs the Descendant tuner kit, you could get a top brand BB T3/T04E and use the little chinacharger as a paperweight or doorstop.
11-21-2009, 07:03 AM
#5
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That's cool. Kevin told me a few months back that he was working on a TC kit and apparently he was. The only thing really wrong with my kit was the manifold. It's been a PITA to substitute a cast iron mani. New custom DP, some new intake and charge pipes, some silicone, external WG, etc.
If your mani is 10-12ga, it should hold up pretty well. If it's 16ga like mine was, you should start planning for the inevitable ASAP. Would you mind posting some pics? I'd love to see it.
If your mani is 10-12ga, it should hold up pretty well. If it's 16ga like mine was, you should start planning for the inevitable ASAP. Would you mind posting some pics? I'd love to see it.
11-21-2009, 09:32 AM
#6
those kits are OK for the budget person who is looking for about 240-260hp but if you want more then look somewhere else because the quality from cxracing isn't the best because it won't hold for high hp gains. for those who didn't get a cast iron manifold from cxracing then just know that it's gonna crack soon because the welds are cheap so start looking for a cast iron manifold. other than that the R&D xB2 has been running fine since day 1 and there is a tC out there with the kit that runs strong but has problems with the car/kit/tuning but overall it's an ok kit for the budget person. personally i would prefer to piece together a kit from scratch with better quality parts and a sweet looking equal length manifold.
11-21-2009, 07:25 PM
#7
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here's my little advise on cheap boost.... in general if you're really looking to boost, don't ever go cheap. You'll always end up spending more than you would have if you just saved and shelled out in the first place. Now with regards to the general ebay turbo kits or up and coming so and so shop brand..... trial and error.
I've seen plenty of cheap ebay kits perform well and I've seen plenty of name brand kits blow within 1k.... but I think its safe to say the branded kit will always perform better than the knock off statistically. at the end of the day in this day and age..... alot of the same parts come from the same manufacturers... just re-branded or non branded. Ping ping from shipping probably worked a deal to not brand the same part and send it out as his own generic knock off..... My word of advise is this......
if you buy a cheap rebranded turbo kit.... chances are it hasn't been tested and broken in..... the bigger companies all do an in house break in for hte turbo bearings. I've seen with proper break in, these kits can get the job done... i bet when you're chinese copy turbo came in... if you try to spin the blades, it'll be very stiff compared to a garret bb you'll be able to spin it and it'll spin for about 20 seconds.....
now if you're looking to boost any where above around 8psi I would never recommend a mom and pop ebay kit. I generally would never recommend it at all but considering the money factor and desire to just get a little bit of umph and cool factor of the turbo that these kits can be worth the money for some people. 1200 bucks for about 40 hp isn't so bad.
The other rule to follow is.... never be the guinea pig. because of the lack of credibility and workmanship you just don't know what to expect from any of these cheaper kits. I dont think i've ever seen a sub $2000 cheapo kit fit without modifications. but then again i dont come across too many of those..... either way, expect a little modifications but better yet.... let someone else test them first and if the reviews are positive then you can better anticipate the work involved to purchase the kit and get it running.
Now with all said and done..... there are a few things i would never recommend cheapening out on....
1. Tires
2. brakes
3. Seats
4. Coilovers
5. Engine management
6. Turbos
7. Cognac.....
8. and shoes....
Imagine driving home with a hang over because you drank some cheap sh*T and your cheap chinese made turbo siezes up on you, your vacuum lines are going haywire.... your engine management doesn't know wtf to do and goes ballistic making your car bog and ultimately cracks out..... you're attention diverts to look at the needles to see wtf is going on.... a car pulls out in front of you and you try to maneuver around it but your cheap suspension puts you into on coming traffic which results in you freaking out (because admit it, if you were a skilled driver we wouldn't be even considering cheap parts)..... you slam on your cheap brakes that can't distribute evenly pressure and your tires are so cheap it won't carry your traction which pitches you sideways going off the road.
You've now hit a pole and your seat brackets break sending you through the windshield because the seats were made in china and just rewrapped in the back yard of jose's garage. you're now lying on the top of your hood with cheap shoes.....
not the way i'd like to go out!
big companies put in money to R&D parts..... support them. This isn't some mid pipe or exhaust cannister.... turbos have moving parts... granted only 1 but because of this..... its a critical point of failure. the fact that its moving dramatically increases its failure factor. I would'nt cheapen out on the turbo... But if you do because the money's right and boost isn't the biggest concern then let someone else test it first..... treat it lightly as you consider how it was made and the finishing process..... if you slap a chinese turbo on and go instant boost it'll fail on you within a few hundred miles..... almost always garaunteed.
PS. i said it before and I'll say it again..... it's a scion.... our cars were never made to go fast. It's an economy car so if you truly are looking for speed and performance..... i'd suggest saving money and picking up a car that can deliver the goods in the first place. If you keep boost low I think you'll be all good but anything above and beyond will require alot of work..... i'm sorry but the internals, transmissions, drivetrain, and just general aerodynamics of these things just weren't meant to handle the power that I think alot of people are looking for.
I've seen plenty of cheap ebay kits perform well and I've seen plenty of name brand kits blow within 1k.... but I think its safe to say the branded kit will always perform better than the knock off statistically. at the end of the day in this day and age..... alot of the same parts come from the same manufacturers... just re-branded or non branded. Ping ping from shipping probably worked a deal to not brand the same part and send it out as his own generic knock off..... My word of advise is this......
if you buy a cheap rebranded turbo kit.... chances are it hasn't been tested and broken in..... the bigger companies all do an in house break in for hte turbo bearings. I've seen with proper break in, these kits can get the job done... i bet when you're chinese copy turbo came in... if you try to spin the blades, it'll be very stiff compared to a garret bb you'll be able to spin it and it'll spin for about 20 seconds.....
now if you're looking to boost any where above around 8psi I would never recommend a mom and pop ebay kit. I generally would never recommend it at all but considering the money factor and desire to just get a little bit of umph and cool factor of the turbo that these kits can be worth the money for some people. 1200 bucks for about 40 hp isn't so bad.
The other rule to follow is.... never be the guinea pig. because of the lack of credibility and workmanship you just don't know what to expect from any of these cheaper kits. I dont think i've ever seen a sub $2000 cheapo kit fit without modifications. but then again i dont come across too many of those..... either way, expect a little modifications but better yet.... let someone else test them first and if the reviews are positive then you can better anticipate the work involved to purchase the kit and get it running.
Now with all said and done..... there are a few things i would never recommend cheapening out on....
1. Tires
2. brakes
3. Seats
4. Coilovers
5. Engine management
6. Turbos
7. Cognac.....
8. and shoes....
Imagine driving home with a hang over because you drank some cheap sh*T and your cheap chinese made turbo siezes up on you, your vacuum lines are going haywire.... your engine management doesn't know wtf to do and goes ballistic making your car bog and ultimately cracks out..... you're attention diverts to look at the needles to see wtf is going on.... a car pulls out in front of you and you try to maneuver around it but your cheap suspension puts you into on coming traffic which results in you freaking out (because admit it, if you were a skilled driver we wouldn't be even considering cheap parts)..... you slam on your cheap brakes that can't distribute evenly pressure and your tires are so cheap it won't carry your traction which pitches you sideways going off the road.
You've now hit a pole and your seat brackets break sending you through the windshield because the seats were made in china and just rewrapped in the back yard of jose's garage. you're now lying on the top of your hood with cheap shoes.....
not the way i'd like to go out!
big companies put in money to R&D parts..... support them. This isn't some mid pipe or exhaust cannister.... turbos have moving parts... granted only 1 but because of this..... its a critical point of failure. the fact that its moving dramatically increases its failure factor. I would'nt cheapen out on the turbo... But if you do because the money's right and boost isn't the biggest concern then let someone else test it first..... treat it lightly as you consider how it was made and the finishing process..... if you slap a chinese turbo on and go instant boost it'll fail on you within a few hundred miles..... almost always garaunteed.
PS. i said it before and I'll say it again..... it's a scion.... our cars were never made to go fast. It's an economy car so if you truly are looking for speed and performance..... i'd suggest saving money and picking up a car that can deliver the goods in the first place. If you keep boost low I think you'll be all good but anything above and beyond will require alot of work..... i'm sorry but the internals, transmissions, drivetrain, and just general aerodynamics of these things just weren't meant to handle the power that I think alot of people are looking for.
Last edited by Go_HIN; 11-21-2009 at 07:35 PM.
11-22-2009, 05:20 AM
#9
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It's not like XB owners have a lot of options. Descendant uses hose clamps, the stock airbox, rotated 90* so it draws hot air off the firewall and requires you to hack a fugly, gaping hole in your front bumper cover for the CXR sized SMIC.
Last edited by ScionFred; 11-22-2009 at 05:55 AM.
11-22-2009, 05:46 AM
#10
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I dont think i've ever seen a sub $2000 cheapo kit fit without modifications. but then again i dont come across too many of those..... either way, expect a little modifications but better yet.... let someone else test them first and if the reviews are positive then you can better anticipate the work involved to purchase the kit and get it running.
Great post BTW. Although I think it's cool that people are building 400+ whp FWD economy cars, I agree with you that the much more practical approach to those performance levels would be to start with a RWD/AWD factory performance car. Personally I just want to have a little fun with 200-250whp in my $17K econobox.
BTW, I think it's pointless to debate the chinacharger included in this kit. With the kind of money involved in boosting a NA engine, the $150 extra paid for the chinacharger is negligible. You could replace it with a Precision T3/T4 as I did for $550 and sell the CC on ebay for $100 or run it til the seals leak and get another.
Last edited by ScionFred; 11-22-2009 at 05:57 AM.
11-22-2009, 05:35 PM
#11
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Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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I'd advise anyone getting these chinachargers to atleast keep em' low boost under 2-3 lbs for about 1k miles. The parts and materials are probably just a grade lower than some of the other chargers currently out on the market. The difference is that these chinachargers have brand new bearings that haven't been broken in yet. The fan blades will probably be stiff like I said above. I know of a few companies that rebrand chinachargers but break them in and sell em' for more. I'll keep that to myself tho since people here don't like it when I speak the truth. But with that being said.... i've seen em' work. Still wouldn't run em' on my car but for the price its one of those low floors with high upside deals.
but yea just like you said... for some 50-75 hp (personally I wouldn't turn up the boost so +75 or so should be enough) I can see the justification. Anything more you will be entering into the cars maximum level of efficiency and probably start seeing other parts fail which will require alot of supporting mods. All n all... read my sig, it says it all.
but yea just like you said... for some 50-75 hp (personally I wouldn't turn up the boost so +75 or so should be enough) I can see the justification. Anything more you will be entering into the cars maximum level of efficiency and probably start seeing other parts fail which will require alot of supporting mods. All n all... read my sig, it says it all.
11-23-2009, 06:33 AM
#12
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My Precision 5031E was actually a lot stiffer to rotate than my CXR turbo but I assumed that it had more to do with the assembly lube they used. I really wish I could have logged more miles on my chinacharger but I couldn't pass up the deal I got on this 5031E.
The most significant difference I found between the 5031E and the CXR turbo is that while both are labeled as T3/T04E .63a/r, stg 3, .60a/r, 50 trim, the CXR is actually closer to a .48a/r, stg 3, .60a/r T04B. I'm not sure of the CXR comp trim but the wheel is much smaller than the 5031E's.
BTW, I've got nothing to rationalize here. Considering my options at the time, I think I made a very good choice. Descendant was charging $4500 for a tuner kit with int WG, stock airbox and hose clamps and Turbo Toyotas was taking money for kits that never got made. There were no other options other than custom and I don't have the tools to do that properly. No bandsaw, no TIG, no bead roller, no angle grinder, etc.
Have you seen my CXR kit?
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=176230
The most significant difference I found between the 5031E and the CXR turbo is that while both are labeled as T3/T04E .63a/r, stg 3, .60a/r, 50 trim, the CXR is actually closer to a .48a/r, stg 3, .60a/r T04B. I'm not sure of the CXR comp trim but the wheel is much smaller than the 5031E's.
BTW, I've got nothing to rationalize here. Considering my options at the time, I think I made a very good choice. Descendant was charging $4500 for a tuner kit with int WG, stock airbox and hose clamps and Turbo Toyotas was taking money for kits that never got made. There were no other options other than custom and I don't have the tools to do that properly. No bandsaw, no TIG, no bead roller, no angle grinder, etc.
Have you seen my CXR kit?
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=176230
11-23-2009, 05:00 PM
#13
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I would never knock someone that is trying to save some dough on a new kit provided they know what they are doing under the hood when its time to mod or make room. I'm not a mechanic by no means so I just plunked down and purchased the descendant bolt on kit. For me, I just feel a bit more comfortable, but my wallet is whining a little. If its fast, its fun! Learn to be content with the boost, I hear its addictive to dial that thing up. If a mustang blows your doors off at the light, just say "he was supposed to do that!"
11-23-2009, 11:48 PM
#14
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i didn't mean anything towards you with my sig... the point is that if someones got to rationalize and defend the purchase of a part, they might as well save up for what they really wanted in the 1st place.
11-24-2009, 09:58 PM
#15
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I would never knock someone that is trying to save some dough on a new kit provided they know what they are doing under the hood when its time to mod or make room. I'm not a mechanic by no means so I just plunked down and purchased the descendant bolt on kit. For me, I just feel a bit more comfortable, but my wallet is whining a little. If its fast, its fun! Learn to be content with the boost, I hear its addictive to dial that thing up. If a mustang blows your doors off at the light, just say "he was supposed to do that!"
Bottom line is that Descendant offers a very good turbo kit for the XB2 and CXR offers a crappy kit with the potential to be a very good kit.
It's cool. I kinda figured your sig was a generic comment but wasn't sure to what degree you felt it applied here. My intent was simply to see if what I've been telling Kevin at CXR is correct or not. From the results so far, it appears that he could sell more kits if he fixed the maf holder and included a better manifold.
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