jct

sweet, long tube header

theboxman

with this header hes making its to be used in conjunction with a STREET LEGAL setup. what he ran befor that produced 145whp was NOT STREET LEGAL. thats what i gather from past posts and current posts of these dynatek parts.

pickledchang

i dont think this setup is street legal either. the header removes one cat, the midpipe removes the second, unless he has added a cat and bungs for o2 sensors.

im really not understanding whats going on with having 145whp the original intake manifold run, and now 148whp even after adding a header and midpipe. he states a gain of 26 whp just by adding a CAI, mani, catback w/off road pipe... this means the stock exhaust mani and first cat were still in place:

so if i can get ~145 whp with just adding the mani, cai, and off road pipe to my existing catback, then i am happy... but if we are seeing such large gains with the header, and we take them out of the equation, im pretty sure just adding the intake mani will yield much lower numbers than 145whp, which is a whole different story than what was told before. what im seeing now, is we also need to purchase the header and midpipe to achieve what we were told the manifold alone could do. if richard runs the same setup with the stock header and midpipe and gets 145whp, then i got nothing and its my mistake for thinking such ridiculousness.

richard, do you have an updated dyno of your original setup? (cai, intake mani, free flowing catback? or could you please clear up this situation?)

pickledchang

anyway, looks like ill have to start saving another $600, lol. richard, for budgeting purposes, what is the timeframe for release of the header/midpipe and intake?

btw, for comparison... i had a mazda3 2.3L 5spd, which seem to dyno around 138hp and 125lbtq, and those weigh in around 2850, ~200lbs more than us. i was able to run a 15.99 at the track with a catback and CAI. so for the xD with this setup, thats 200lbs less, 10 more hp, and 10 more lbs of tq. mid 15s i think are possible on this car. (though the gearing may have been better in the 3).

Zefoxe

I think what your saying is right Pickled, but you'll be losing a few ponies due to the cats on the stock headers themselves compared to running the Dynatek setup, but you should be in that range of the original quoted hp with the larger diameter cat back. I believe the stock header is sized at 2.5 if I remember garage 1217s posts correctly.

Zefoxe

and it should be 2 cats on the header and 1 on the midpipe i believe

CASTREX

Haven't you guys taken a look under your cars yet?


This is how it goes.

There are no cats on the header. The header (exhaust manifold actually) is a shorty style and has no cats on it.

The car has 2 cat converters and 1 resonator. These 3 are located on the mid pipe. Starting right after the header.

So You have:


Header with A/F sensor on it - Mid Pipe(Primary cat - O2 Sensor- Secondary Cat - Resonator) - Axle back

CASTREX

... To Pickledchang concerns:

All valid questions... but a lot of ex peculation!!

I'm sure Richard will refer to the subject.

pickledchang

its alright, it just means ill have to spend more money to get to my goal of 150whp, this also means the setup will be not be street legal unless richard will be adding two cats to the midpipe, which im pretty sure wont be happening, heh. with a 2+ inch catback added to this, its probably going to be a very loud setup, but you may be able to quiet it down a little with some straight-through resonators. i dont think exhaust shops will work on your exhaust either when its been modified illegaly. once its on, you should be okay unless you get a fix it ticket or have to go in for emmisions if your state/county requires it, so youll want to keep your stock parts.

richard, will this mid-pipe work with an existing catback of 2.25"?

CASTREX

Found this picture that might help clarify some things. This s a Yaris but the exhaust set up and routing is pretty much the same




As you can see from this picture... if we install a long tube header. The header will probably extent all the way thru were the secondary cat is located. Making the OE mid pipe totally incompatible.

Richard mid pipe will probably extend from were the OE secondary cat is located all the way thru the axle back.

So in my case that I already have a custom 2.25" cat back exhaust, My cat back would have to be modified in some way to mate with Richard's header. I would not need a new mid pipe, but to modify the current that I have.

What I would do is:

- Cut my current cat back and install a flange in order to mate it with Richard's LT header.

- then I would remove the section of my catback that contains the cat converter and put a flange on it too.


That way, I would have 2 different and exchangeable set ups. One street legal and the other one for "offroad use"


I understand that this won't be appealing for a lot of people who won't be interested on all this hassle!!
For those people Richard asked yesterday to speak up your interest on a OE header direct replacement. A direct bolt on.

This option should be a lot cheaper, and street legal. Of course the gains won't compare to the long tube design.

And you are right the car will probably be LOUD with Richard's set up.


When it comes to the header / exhaust is important for everybody to think about what they really want in order to make the best choice!

In my case, I'm all out with this car... so it doesn't bother me to have to modify my current exhaust set up and I can stand a loud car.

pickledchang

modifying my current catback is what i will have to do as well. ill definitely be using flanges so its easy to swap between 'off-road' and 'street use'. removing both cats and the resonator for a straight-thru exhaust is going to be very loud, espeically if its going to be 2.5" or 2.25" all the way... so id like to try and have at least 2 free flowing resonators to help with the noise at least a little, or possibly change my muffler over to one that has a removable silencer.

dynatek

Wow, allkinds of random speculation going-please stop all the madness-LOL. Hope this clears things up. The long tube header will require our mid pipe since it will not bolt to the stock cat back. It can (as indicated by castrex) be joined to a custom cat back. We plan to offer the mid pipe with a resonator and/or cat since the mid pipe will be made in 2 pieces (primarily for shipping purposes). This will also allow the mid pipe to be used on the Xd as well as (we hope) the Yaris application (Sedan too). The header will not be emissions leagal and will be for off-road use only-though it will be equipped with oxygen sensors fittings. I knew I would get into trouble with the older 145 hp post and this new 148 hp, but there really is no comparison between the two. The original 145 hp was produced with a version of the intake that would never be produced (it adds a few extra hp up top but sacrafices too much power elsewhere). In addition, the original 145 hp set up included the stock exhaust manifold exiting through a 2.5-inch down pipe with no cats and no cat-back exhaust-not something possible on the street. The new runss (148 hp) were made with what will be the production intake configuration, the long tube header and a 2.5-inch exhaust (no muffler or axle back). This represents something that can be accomplished on the street with a good exhaust/muffler combination. Adding a high-flow cat will cost some power but likely a good resonator will not drop power. Hope this clears everything up. What it comes down to is that if you want to make 150 wheel hp with your Xd-the only recipe will be the header/mid pipe, new intake, CAI and U-pulleys.

CASTREX

pickledchang we think pretty much alike

I have 2 round resonators installed on my car. And they do work out to reduce the noise.

I deleted the secondary cat. Then add a magnaflow 4" round 18" long instead of the OE resonator. Then I installed a 5" round and 14" long in the back in place of the OE muffler.
My car does not have much room on the back but on the xD you can probably fit a much larger muffler on the back to help quite things down.






And finally for your amusement. Here is video so you can check out the sound ! ;)

CASTREX

Question for Richard:


Have you checked the injectors cycle at the 148 whp level?


Do they still have room to manage some more power or are they close to top out?

pickledchang

thanks for clearing that up richard... sorry to speculate so much, but i was getting really confused with the earlier posts and the numbers on the new dyno results. anyway, i think most of us here would rather sacrifice a few hp up top to have good gains over the whole power band. i know youre a busy guy, but you should offer a matching 2.5" axle back. ill have to modify my catback to fit yours, a shop wont work on it, and i dont know squat about welding, so looks like ill have to learn.

anyone else have ideas on what this probably run in the 1/4 mile with these numbers?

dynatek

I don't remember viewing the duty cycle while testing, but I can flow one of the injectors (ASNU machine where I do engine dyno work) and let you know.

pickledchang

castrex, did those resonators help out a good bit with cutting down the noise? also, are you having much popping and stuff with downshifts and engine braking? mine only does it when its cold for the first few minutes, but i still have both cats.

CASTREX

Well I can not tell you exactly how much are they helping to cut the noise since I have never ran with out them... What I can tell you is that the current noise level is not bad at all... compared to a lot of other cars (civic's) I see on the street.

I can talk and listen to music while cruising. If I floor it... that's another story!

I do have some popping when downshifting on low revs. But very minimal. I can only hear it if I have the windows down. Is not that popping noise you can here from 200ft away.

Also, I'm sure you can find some shop that can do that work for you... just need to look for a more performance oriented shop. Or just tell them you are building a race car...


I know of many people in the US who have custom "offroad" exhaust work done. So I guess you just need to look around.

CASTREX

Here is my experience.

Best time 15.85 sec @ 86MPH
0-60 in 7.6 sec


I only had a CAI and the exhaust. 120WHP estimated

I was running with heavy 17" OE wheels. and OE rubber.

My car weights 2450lbs. I ran with no back seat nor spare tire. So around 100lbs less.

Also, the gearing on my Yaris is shorter than the gearing on the US xD

I would say that at 150whp, lightweight wheels and sticky tires AND removing some weight the xD should be good for low 15's

Add a 50hp shot and shave 1 more second.

That's my guess.

dynatek

Was the 15.8 at 86 run at the drag strip or on a vericom/G-Tech device? If at the track, what was the 60-foot time?