tc still has better package value.. though i like the new civic's digital gauges...

 

SI. End of story, i might be getting one.

And as i've said before, and no one believed me about the K20 handling boost. HKS delivered 350whp 289tq (yes, 289tq in a honda motor) without any issues at all. Of course, they built the motor up for it but thats what you would want to do anyway with a large boost. So, it goes to prove my point that if you wanted to go boost with the a honda they are good for it. They are also great for n/a build ups, as i did that with a gs-r before my xb.

Its a great car, it looks very good in person. Can't wait to test drive one!

Cya

 

The new ex is not $23,000 that was a rumor, just like it was a rumor that the new Si would cost $25,000. The Si starts at $19,990.

Cya

 

I am planning to trade in and get the Si as well. I am gonna wait for 07 model though in case there are any first year bugs. Learned that from owning the tC.

 

all i can say if your looking for a sports car out the box, then your going to be looking at the civic. it is possible to have the scion doing much better in the sports car category if you spend the time money and effort. this car is based on having a nice "sporty" look with commuter enginuity. you spend that extra 5k with no interest invovle and youll have a way faster car than you stock 22k si civic.

 

What is it with you people and the Si?

Moved.

 

Buh dir dir dir...

Can't believe this tC(vs)SI debate. If you like it and think its so great...then get it. If you like the tC, and dont want to get the SI....then dont. Stock vs stock...the SI is better...period. Thats why any car with better performance costs more....buh dir.

Just my 2 cents

 

i think with the price difference, you could make a scion a lot faster and nicer the the si, plus you get like 5 grand to customize over an si

 

OMG!!!!!!! 200+ Hp N/A ...... I'm gonna buy a K20 powered car right now!!!!!!!

 

That was a poor example, i had a integra gs-r and last dyno run was 231whp n/a. I've seen a type-s have in the range of 250whp n/a.

K20 series is an excellent motor to build up, f/i or n/a.

Cya

 

I'd like to see an SI give you wheel spin into 4th gear. Also, Toyota has its own variation of Variable Valve Timing with intelligence dubbed VVT-i.

 

So...sorry, whats your point? I don't think anyone said toyota didn't have a version of vtec. However, the two systems are completely different anyway, they only share a few things in common. They both work and operate differently.

Are you implying a tC can give wheel spin in 4th? If so, i'd love to see a video of that. Not calling you out, but i haven't seen a tC do it. But if you are talking about general toyota, then i can talk general honda and say i've seen a few hondas give wheel spin going into 4th including a s2k, nsx, and older civic si.

So if you could explain a little further that would be cool, i'm a little slow 4:55am.

Cya

 

Firstly....

comparing a modded to a stock car is kind of stupid


and secondly, if we were to do that, it would only be about a 3 grand difference...not as big as some of yall were making.


And there are people with the RSX-S making 500+ whp as well on stock internals with a turbo. Both engines are capable of handling boost quite well.

There are plenty of K20s making over 200 whp N/A. Sure, it doesn't sound much, but are there any tCs that can come close?


Not bashing or anything here..but let's try to get realistic. the tC is still the cheaper car, but just because it's cheaper doesn't make it better. But everyone has different preferences so...go figure

 

I use that same modded vs. stock disagreement constantly with the tc vs. si threads. However, i've stopped using it because a lot of tC owners kept coming at me with with all these reasons, well, opinions as to why it makes perfect sense.

To each their own. Its about time somebody agreed with me.

Cya

 

200whp is about 225bhp. To say it doesnt sound like much is a huge understatement. 4AGE 1.6L 20V engines can pout out 210hp relatively easily and with enough work, the ancient 4AGE's can do it to. The BEAMS 3SGE 2.0L put out 210hp from the factory. All of them yesteryear technology. I'm not saying that the K20 is not a great engine, because it is, but why is it exactly do you think Toyota could not make the 2AZ put out anywhere from 200-250hp NA if it wanted to?

 

And further more, i agree whole heartedly that it does not make much sense to compare a modded car to a stock one (unless based on a performance per dollar perspective)...

But then also what sense does it make to compare a tC to a Si which is performance tuned from the factory? Wouldnt a more adequate comparo be tC vs EX Coupe or something like that? Yes, the Si might be a better car, but it also costs more ent it?

 

Here is a big separation point in these arguments.. Some will say they can make the power with the tC for less than the "other" costs overall, then the other person says thats stupid and that they should just buy the other car.... neither are right or wrong.

I would personally have more fun starting with a good 160hp engine in a cool little car and adding the cost difference of the "other" car to make it faster. Why? Because that is more interesting to me. And in the end it WOULD be faster. But, that is with me doing the work and only having to buy parts.

Others would rather just buy it that way and drive it. That is their preference.

Neither is dumb or wasiting their time and money because they both will come out with the car they like with the performance they like.

Keep in mind that 200 NA HP is nothing big. It is impressive with a 4 banger.. but we arent exactly talking race cars (or anywhere close) here. We are talking quick street cars .. that is it.

 

I know I know...

But my point is that they didn't make it put out 200-250 hp NA because they wanted to save costs and make it a very affordable car, which is good. It's a balance of tradeoffs, so..that's what I was saying.

You pay more for a higher level product, lower for not so high level product.

 

I honestly don't understand why tC owners do it either. I contribute to their threads since i come from honda but still, you are talking about two cars in different classes and both are designed from the factory completely different.

However, i think tC owners feel the need to compare their cars to the Si is because price difference isn't that much. I guess tC owners want to say the car is better than ____ which is $_____ expensive and $____ more than the tC? I'm not trying to offend anyone, but honestly thats what it appears to be.

I agree with you up till a certain point, to say the tC in the end will be faster is kind of ignorant to say. (no offense, i'm sure your not ignorant at all but let me explain) How you worded this point is too general of a statement. Mod for mod, the Si is going to out perform the tC. However, if you are talking about total build ups. To get the max whp out of each motor obviously the 2az will defeat the K20 simply because of displacement. However, rarely does any street car see its maximum poteintal.

Ex coupe wouldn't be a good compar. either, because tC would beat an Ex. As far as what honda puts out, the closest match would be the rsx. (non type s) Before someone says something, yes its an acura powered by honda therefore . lol
Anyway, that would be the best car i can think of for the tC to be compared to. (with honda/acura)

Cya

 

The problem is more than making a slow car fast, it has to do with the cars balance of systems. Anyone can make more power... but keeping the car "balanaced" to where it handles and brakes to match the power is key.
There is nothing wrong with creating a sleeper... It's nice when nobody suspects there is more power, but with power comes other problems... like putting the power down, keeping the other components from breaking from the new power...

I have done it both ways... and I prefer to buy a car that is already setup for power. They are designed for power and the systems can hold up to it.. I don't like surprises.... speed without reliability is worthless...

One of the worlds best aftermarket tuners once quoted me

"If you want a fast car, buy a fast car.." He made his living on designing afgtermarket turbo systems for BMW's and other exotics...