Whoa... This thread got ugly quick. Kahuna, you thought it was soooo funny that your question was supposedly not answered or whatever you said and I challenged you to ask another and you still haven't. Since nothing is coming of the bickering above this post I challenge you to ask a question that the rest of us can run with and change the conversational topic to one that will actually lead somewhere.

 

well put...

 

Wait. Are you saying that God exists or not? Cause I'm pretty sure thats what us Christians are saying happened....
I'm confused.

 

That's not entirely true. Say someone discovers something is wrong with the theory of gravity. The entire theory isn't dropped. It is merely looked at a second time and seen where the problem is and seeing if there is a reasonable explanation. If there is a reasonable explanation then that new instance would get factored into our theory of gravity.
Same thing with us. Just because something doesn't appear to be right at this moment doesn't mean we should throw out the bible. It just means we need to take a good hard look and see what the problem actually is.

 

i didn't need lsd. i tried it when i was 14. then did it more afterwards, as it really got rid of manic depression. Dumb people do not like lsd, it's odd. like 1% of drug users have even tried it, and much less enjoy it. There was a recent british study with just mushrooms, which are like a weaker form of lsd, and some 60% say it's the most profound experience they've ever had. more than the birth of your first child, and more so than a religious experience. lsd also happens to be the least harmful illegal drug there is, much less than tobacco even.

Crack is cocaine, which is a horrible drug. Do you wanna talk drugs? or do you just follow what you've learned from our just say no media?

 

Ok... Kahuna just likes to criticize so I'll open it up to all you theists. Ask a question. The Atheists as it has been pointed out have asked plenty where as the theists have not. (maybe since you know everything there is nothing to ask?)

 

I don't really think it got that ugly. I'm just giving back what was given.
I don't see how Dave can continuely refer to what I believe as being Magic and when I call someone out on something, then I've made the thread ugly.
Double Standards can be truly a terrible thing.

Now all that being said I'm still going to stick with my original question, but I will elaborate on it.

Imagine that a Doctor travels to Africa to help the starving and dying children there. While there he sees what is going on and is infuriated so he returns to America with awful tales of baby's dying from starvation.
He tells the stories to a wealthy friend of his that takes the stories to heart and opens a new clinic in Africa to help the children.

So from the death of children a new foundation and clinic is open that saves more lives then the ones that the original doctor saw die.
If this was God's plan all along, is this wrong?

 

the problem is, it claims to be true.
First there are 76 generations between adam and jesus mean either all pre-homosapien bones that are found are hoaxes, or christians believe adam was a very primitive humanoid, with not much more brain capacity than a great ape who couldn't hardly use tools or speak and through an incredibley fast form of evolution, like 2 generations, we get homosapiens.

then the making of birds before anything that lived on land. In no logical way can me or you explain this. good lord. this just gets worse and worse.

 

Ok well I just want to clarify something here. When I said Wow I wasn't trying to imply anything negative towards the use of drugs (although I obviously feel that way).
I was merely shocked to find that you're more enlightened and open minded because you're mind was opened in an instance that can and won't ever be able to be reproduce for another person.
The only reason I bring this up at all is that Christians were put down a few posts back for trying to use personal non-reproducable experiences to demonstrate what they believe.

 

but that's just not what's happening. if it was, if we were saving more children than are being lost, then i could see that argument. But it's like we 'save' (actually twice...through giving them bibles and food.. ) a hundreth of what dies. or maybe a thousandth. **** let's look at the entire world's population before 50 years ago. how many really have died of starvation.
i really don't think this children dying debate is going anywhere. simply put, thuosands more children die than are saved by their death, probably millions more.

 

LOL... let me get this straight...
God causes children to suffer in africa then sends a doctor to help so that a wealthy man can start a clinic to help the children that god made suffer in the first place...
Well I have to ask why god would make the children suffer in the first place?

 

yes, i think so
i kinda ran with this idea earlier, so bear with me.

Most people would think god is all knowing and knows the future.
They also think that they are a result of his creation.
Therefore, he is creating people he knows will suffer, in addition to people he knows will reject him.
So he basically creates people whose sole purpose is to die and people whose sole purpose is to cause suffering and populate hell.

so i dont agree with the suffering of 5 people to justify saving 10 peopple when in terms of a god.

But when talking about the actions of people, i think its ok.

 

If the problem with the Bible is that it claims to be true then every non-fiction book has problems too.

As far as the idea of Adam being a proto-human I'd have to tell you from the point of veiw of an Old-Earther this doesn't have to be. If certain creatures were introduced by God at different times, then Adam was a fully formed human that God had created.

As for the problem with Birds, I can see where you are coming from but I don't understand how you could be taking those verses so literally. If that were the case where would god have made penguins? Or ostriches? They are fowl yet don't fly.
If the bible had gone into detail on when each and every animal was created, no one would ever be able to read it.

 

Ok... Let's simplify this. If people were "designed" by god...
Why would god give us succeptability to hunger/disease.
Wouldn't a more perfect design be creatures who live for 60 years then die peacefully and are limited to having 2 children? What is the point of god making us suffer (which you must believe he did if you believed he designed us.)

 

unlike christianity though, you can do lsd and feel it's effects. there is not an adult here in this thread that would say it wasn't incredibely enlightening if they did it. sorry. i realise you guys grew up i a culture were "drugs are bad because our government thinks they should be illegal" and wouldn't dare try it. but everyone of you would say it's one of the most mind opening, and profound experiences you've ever had if you did. and you'd also have the best sex in your entire life on it too. sorry, i've been christian, married, had a kid. you're not going to find anything like it.

"although of course i don't condone it's use."

yes, you can reproduce it. It's almost like a magic 8ball. any question you can ask yourself while on it, you would get an answer for.

 

What is your reasoning for people that have "Bad Trips" then they asked to have them?

 

Ok I'm all up for simplifying it.

Would your example be ok for a creature that at the age of 20 had a horrible experience and decided to end it all and commit suicide?

 

But there is not the premise that gravity is always true. Educated evolutionists will tell you that gravity is just a theory. But even "educated" creationists always believe their theory (god) is true. I have yet to meet one who can put aside their bias nor do I expect to meet one since the position is such that bias MUST, by definition, be present. Besides, how many times has gravity been shown to be wrong? Compare that to the number of mistakes, lies and contradictions in the bible that have been shown.

Evolution says - The sun has risen every day for 'X' years. It has risen everyday in my lifetime. But that does not PROVE it will rise tomorrow morning. No one knows for sure.
Creation says - The sun has risen every day for 'X' years. It has risen everyday in my lifetime. I KNOW it will rise tomorrow. The reason I KNOW this is because of FAITH.

As a theist, you can know god because you believe, but you cant believe in god because you know.

Get it? Take a minute on that last sentence and read it again. Understand what it means, not just what it says.

 

So you believe that cromagnum man, or homoerectus came before adam, yes or no?
(i'm not asking what is right, just asking what you believe is right)
Do you believe Adam was just the first homosapien and homo-erectus became extinct as a seperate species?

well even though, the first 5 books were supposedly written down by moses as god dictated, moses(or whoever wrote it) didn't know about ostrichs or penguins, and that's the actual reason why.

you're right about not going into detail on every animal. if it had, we'd not be able to discover new species as we do near everyday. that's why the bible lumped birds all together, because it was not all knowing.

 

it's not being in control of your emotions. while on lsd, you are alot more emotionally fragile, which is why yuo'll hear people only want to do it with trusted friends.

taking a good amount of lsd the first time, say after being clean from it for a few months or more, it's like being taken for a rollercoaster ride, you have little control of. then with more experience, or taking it <5 days later, you know what's going to happen to your head, and you take the reigns and actually drive.

"I've gone to the sun and back." is something you might say the first time
"I've flown to the sun and back, stopping to visit each planet and check everything out" is something you might say after you got it under control.