View Poll Results: What's more important to you?
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Next Generation tC
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,193
From: South River, NJ
Wow. There are so many reciculous suggestions.
Keep the next generation tc simple. You have a great car and a great concept. Stick to your target audience and don't deviate. Let's just go for a nice new look (can you beat the new honda accord coupe?) and continue with the good reliability and low cost.
There are a million things I want to have with this car, but realistically the only practical change that I see would be a sixth gear as it is really needed.
Don't forget what has made this car so succesful. Youth appeal, low price, and customizable. Keep the same standard features and keep the car easy to work with for us modders...
Keep the next generation tc simple. You have a great car and a great concept. Stick to your target audience and don't deviate. Let's just go for a nice new look (can you beat the new honda accord coupe?) and continue with the good reliability and low cost.
There are a million things I want to have with this car, but realistically the only practical change that I see would be a sixth gear as it is really needed.
Don't forget what has made this car so succesful. Youth appeal, low price, and customizable. Keep the same standard features and keep the car easy to work with for us modders...
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 172
Originally Posted by Super-Stormtrooper07
Originally Posted by sciontastic
Originally Posted by Super-Stormtrooper07
*What about cylinder cut off feature(computer controled) ? When putting around town/ on the freeway crusing .... shutting down 2 cylinders = much improved mpg performance. How about that ?? When is that technology coming to 4cyl ??
Nice idea. leave that engineering on the dodge HEMIs though.
I don't think 4 bangers can run on 2 cylinders when the other half shuts down. V6 and V8 can do that without the effects of an out of balanced engine. But on inline 4s, the timing and balance will be off if 2 cylinders were to power a car that's 3000+ lbs. Advancing the spark and fuel delivery to 2 operating cyl to accomodate the other 2 cyl shut down will not help. Since Toyota has the market, complete engine shutdown with a hybrid platform is better technology than the other tecnology used in those HEMIs.
Considering the tC is 2900ish pounds, again ... not so sure if this is possible, but around town/cruising FWY speeds , you only need so much hp/torque to get around(the estimate I've heard is 16 hp , on average). Now, on a 1.8L engine ... or smaller(my engine ), this would def. not be a possible feet to shut down 1/2 of the cylinders.... then it would be a .9L or .75L engine powering a 2200-2300 car around town/freeway!! I'd think you'd need a 2L- 2.5L 4 cyl. to possibly make it happen. The 1.8L VVTL-i engine would be interesting... given its 170ish hp , its got some umph.Also, if that technology was done on a V6, then it would probably be engineered to do the same thing and shut down 2 cyl while the engine operates like a 4 cyl. The HEMIs work the same way. Difference is it's an 8cyl that operates like a 6 cyl when the other 2 shuts down.
To put the idea in laymans terms, 2 operating cyl in a 4 cyl engine does not have enough MOMENTUM to balance out the timing of the power stokes. Under mechanical conditions, one cyl could be at the pwr stroke while the other cyl is 2 strokes behind sequence. Under that condition, only running 2 cyl will not be enough to fully complete the 4 stroke combustion process on the following cyl. The more cylinders you have that contribute to the 4 stoke process = the better management of the timing when 2 cyl are shut down. So as you can see, a 6 cyl engine running on 4 cyl is not as dramatic for the engine's computer to adjust the balance. Applying that technology to a 4 cyl engine is literally taking half the engine power. But on a 6 or 8 cyl, only a quarter of the power and torque is lost.
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,486
From: in your house
Originally Posted by svrTc06
-6 spd MT (w/ short throw shifter) or 5 spd AT (w/ manumatic option)
-Stock LSD
-Better tuned suspension (car has a lot of body roll in stock form currently)
-Stock HID Projector headlights
-Rear Wiper
-Color Changeing LED Dash
-PERFORMANCE TRIM!!! (more power out of 2.4l, stock Roots-type Supercharger, stock turbo)
-if supercharger route is taken...go with some stage upgrades, like GM (smaller pulleys, better tune, larger injectors, ect.)
-Racing style seats (like in Honda SI, Chevy Cobolt, Nissan SE-R)
-Stock LSD
-Better tuned suspension (car has a lot of body roll in stock form currently)
-Stock HID Projector headlights
-Rear Wiper
-Color Changeing LED Dash
-PERFORMANCE TRIM!!! (more power out of 2.4l, stock Roots-type Supercharger, stock turbo)
-if supercharger route is taken...go with some stage upgrades, like GM (smaller pulleys, better tune, larger injectors, ect.)
-Racing style seats (like in Honda SI, Chevy Cobolt, Nissan SE-R)
I agree with Svrtc06 and engifineer first post. If you think about it all you the Add ons you get from the dealership including the TRD" performance parts", sound systems and ground effects including the supercharger could bring the scion tc to like 26,000 LOL. I know some people that build their scion from scion.com when the car was ready they drove it off the lot paying like 20,000 plus. So I think those new specs could happen at a fair price. Maybe they might make a sporty verison and normal version. Who knows.
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,486
From: in your house
Originally Posted by jsingh
computer which shows MPG, oil level, etc
!!
!!
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 913
From: In Detention block AA-23!
Originally Posted by sciontastic
I'm dead serious. Through the history of the auto industry, I never heard of any auto mfg that engineers an engine that is capable of running only 2 cyl to pwr the vehicle. Back in the early 90s, GM had their Geo metro pwred by a 3 cyl, but that's it. That's the smallest I heard of, and that was also a small and light car (1300 lbs)for that 3 cyl engine. Running 2 cyl is insufficient pwr for the tC regardless if it drops the displacement down to 1.2L.
To put the idea in laymans terms, 2 operating cyl in a 4 cyl engine does not have enough MOMENTUM to balance out the timing of the power stokes. Under mechanical conditions, one cyl could be at the pwr stroke while the other cyl is 2 strokes behind sequence. Under that condition, only running 2 cyl will not be enough to fully complete the 4 stroke combustion process on the following cyl. The more cylinders you have that contribute to the 4 stoke process = the better management of the timing when 2 cyl are shut down. So as you can see, a 6 cyl engine running on 4 cyl is not as dramatic for the engine's computer to adjust the balance. Applying that technology to a 4 cyl engine is literally taking half the engine power. But on a 6 or 8 cyl, only a quarter of the power and torque is lost.
To put the idea in laymans terms, 2 operating cyl in a 4 cyl engine does not have enough MOMENTUM to balance out the timing of the power stokes. Under mechanical conditions, one cyl could be at the pwr stroke while the other cyl is 2 strokes behind sequence. Under that condition, only running 2 cyl will not be enough to fully complete the 4 stroke combustion process on the following cyl. The more cylinders you have that contribute to the 4 stoke process = the better management of the timing when 2 cyl are shut down. So as you can see, a 6 cyl engine running on 4 cyl is not as dramatic for the engine's computer to adjust the balance. Applying that technology to a 4 cyl engine is literally taking half the engine power. But on a 6 or 8 cyl, only a quarter of the power and torque is lost.
How about this then, could the computer control 3 cyl , and shut down 1 cyl. on a 4cyl car ?? Could the timing of the power strokes then be in balance on this configuration ? If so, it would still be a slight improvement lowering mpg for around town/freeway .
Banned
SL Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 414
From: Miami, FL
- 6 speed manual transmission
- LSD stock
- a bit more HP increase
- tighten the suspension just a bit, feels a bit to soft.
- changing the pedal postiton. They feel too close.
- comfier seats and seat upholsetry that cleans easily.
- interior that doesn't scratch easily
- eliminate the rattles
- add oil temp gauge and even a voltage gauge too
- improve the paint. It chips way too easily.
- LSD stock
- a bit more HP increase
- tighten the suspension just a bit, feels a bit to soft.
- changing the pedal postiton. They feel too close.
- comfier seats and seat upholsetry that cleans easily.
- interior that doesn't scratch easily
- eliminate the rattles
- add oil temp gauge and even a voltage gauge too
- improve the paint. It chips way too easily.
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 172
Originally Posted by Super-Stormtrooper07
Originally Posted by sciontastic
I'm dead serious. Through the history of the auto industry, I never heard of any auto mfg that engineers an engine that is capable of running only 2 cyl to pwr the vehicle. Back in the early 90s, GM had their Geo metro pwred by a 3 cyl, but that's it. That's the smallest I heard of, and that was also a small and light car (1300 lbs)for that 3 cyl engine. Running 2 cyl is insufficient pwr for the tC regardless if it drops the displacement down to 1.2L.
To put the idea in laymans terms, 2 operating cyl in a 4 cyl engine does not have enough MOMENTUM to balance out the timing of the power stokes. Under mechanical conditions, one cyl could be at the pwr stroke while the other cyl is 2 strokes behind sequence. Under that condition, only running 2 cyl will not be enough to fully complete the 4 stroke combustion process on the following cyl. The more cylinders you have that contribute to the 4 stoke process = the better management of the timing when 2 cyl are shut down. So as you can see, a 6 cyl engine running on 4 cyl is not as dramatic for the engine's computer to adjust the balance. Applying that technology to a 4 cyl engine is literally taking half the engine power. But on a 6 or 8 cyl, only a quarter of the power and torque is lost.
To put the idea in laymans terms, 2 operating cyl in a 4 cyl engine does not have enough MOMENTUM to balance out the timing of the power stokes. Under mechanical conditions, one cyl could be at the pwr stroke while the other cyl is 2 strokes behind sequence. Under that condition, only running 2 cyl will not be enough to fully complete the 4 stroke combustion process on the following cyl. The more cylinders you have that contribute to the 4 stoke process = the better management of the timing when 2 cyl are shut down. So as you can see, a 6 cyl engine running on 4 cyl is not as dramatic for the engine's computer to adjust the balance. Applying that technology to a 4 cyl engine is literally taking half the engine power. But on a 6 or 8 cyl, only a quarter of the power and torque is lost.
How about this then, could the computer control 3 cyl , and shut down 1 cyl. on a 4cyl car ?? Could the timing of the power strokes then be in balance on this configuration ? If so, it would still be a slight improvement lowering mpg for around town/freeway .
Well if GM was able to design a 3cyl pwrplant, I don't see why not.
I believe a 4cyl engine that is designed to run on 3 cyl will definitely require spark and fuel advances, as well as camshaft(VVTI) adjustments, to make the overall engine balance. Ideally, a camshaftless engine would be a better set up for a 4cyl engine with that type of technology of a 1cyl shut down. Camshaftless engines uses an engine ECU and electronic controlled solenoids to independantly control timing of each intake and exhaust valves. Unfortunately, those engine are not into production yet, but it has been talked about. There might be a prototype camshaftless engine being tested. Who really knows how reliable a solenoid actuated valvetrain is. I'm just waiting for that day when any auto mfg releases it. You know what that also means?... No more timing belts or timing chains.
Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 44
From: Cali
Things I don't like about this current car.
-The short seat bottoms. Heavy traffic or doing a lot of heel and toe manuvers can get tiering.
-The whole glass roof. It's heavy, so it contributes to the body roll. I don't even use it. Maybe a simple moon roof would've been better.
-The throttle delay.
-This might be related to the above problem, but when you rev the engine slightly, like to get the car moving (manual), the engine will rev, then drop a little, and rev slightly up again, but lower than the first time. I really hate this.
-I don't like the speedometer in the center. I think either the tach should be in the middle or both the tach and speedo should share equal space. This is purely aesthetic.
As far as things I would like to see in the next model, I basically want one thing: LSD. Either standard, or factory installed option.
-The short seat bottoms. Heavy traffic or doing a lot of heel and toe manuvers can get tiering.
-The whole glass roof. It's heavy, so it contributes to the body roll. I don't even use it. Maybe a simple moon roof would've been better.
-The throttle delay.
-This might be related to the above problem, but when you rev the engine slightly, like to get the car moving (manual), the engine will rev, then drop a little, and rev slightly up again, but lower than the first time. I really hate this.
-I don't like the speedometer in the center. I think either the tach should be in the middle or both the tach and speedo should share equal space. This is purely aesthetic.
As far as things I would like to see in the next model, I basically want one thing: LSD. Either standard, or factory installed option.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 8
From: Arizona
Yeah so it ended up being multiple choice style but at least the guy that administered the evaluation was conversing with me and he totally understands where I'm (we) comming from. I think those of us that are reasonable will be very happy with the next gen tC.
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1
Next Generation tC
Current gen tC is a huge value dollar for dollar!
Improvements in my opinion would be a telescoping steering wheel, quieter interior, and a 6 speed manual to keep the RPM's down over 60 mph and get better fuel efficiency.
Improvements in my opinion would be a telescoping steering wheel, quieter interior, and a 6 speed manual to keep the RPM's down over 60 mph and get better fuel efficiency.
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 280
From: THE P H X
-I would say the car NEEDS a telescoping steering wheel
-A moon roof made from something other than glass(i.e. polycarbonate/lexan)
-A 6SPD TRANNY w/ LSD (at least be a REASONABLE option)!
-RWD
-2AZ-FE power(no need to change what is FAR from broken) The engine has SO much backing now and can be turned pretty easily into a BADA$$!
Thats my $0.02...think the car would be PERFECT
-A moon roof made from something other than glass(i.e. polycarbonate/lexan)
-A 6SPD TRANNY w/ LSD (at least be a REASONABLE option)!
-RWD
-2AZ-FE power(no need to change what is FAR from broken) The engine has SO much backing now and can be turned pretty easily into a BADA$$!
Thats my $0.02...think the car would be PERFECT
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,152
Originally Posted by kbanksttc
Yeah so it ended up being multiple choice style but at least the guy that administered the evaluation was conversing with me and he totally understands where I'm (we) comming from. I think those of us that are reasonable will be very happy with the next gen tC.
Member
SL Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 81
From: 618 rt 303, Blauvelt, NY
As an owner and a Dealer Rep...
2.7 Dual VVTL-i engine ;)
AWD
Tilt and telescopic Steering
6Sp manual
TipTronic 5Sp auto Shift
Passenger Knee Air Bag
Bluetooth
Factory HID
Electronic Powersteering
VSC/TRAC
Standard LSD
Digital Guages w Trip Display info (xD & xB)
TPMS that tells you which wheels are low on pressure!
Scion I-Pod Audio System that can work with I-Phone.
Rear Wiper!!!
2.7 Dual VVTL-i engine ;)
AWD
Tilt and telescopic Steering
6Sp manual
TipTronic 5Sp auto Shift
Passenger Knee Air Bag
Bluetooth
Factory HID
Electronic Powersteering
VSC/TRAC
Standard LSD
Digital Guages w Trip Display info (xD & xB)
TPMS that tells you which wheels are low on pressure!
Scion I-Pod Audio System that can work with I-Phone.
Rear Wiper!!!
Member
SL Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 81
From: 618 rt 303, Blauvelt, NY
The 2.7 Dual independant VVT-i with lifters!!! Can this be done? Think Toyota's 3.5 and the performance gains it got, compared to the 3.3 (270bhp vs 225bhp), while still having the economy of the 2.4. I know the 2.7 is in production, bat can and would Lifters on both cams work out? I know it's hypothetical, but really I think this can work.
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 913
From: In Detention block AA-23!
Good question.
I'd like to see the new tC get a 2.7L ... step it up a bit, but still keep it 4cyl, but its on the large side of 4cyl
How is it currently being done on the Tacoma 2.7L (and who else shares the 2.7 .... Rav 4 ... Highlander ???) , isn't it VVT-i ? Not dual VVT-i or dual VVTL-i . Usually, 9/10 Toyota will simply transfer over what engines they already have stock of/ placed order for ..... to then fill the next year model cars , unless Toy. seriously looked into the future way back in 2005-06 , and were thinking they'd make an exception for the next Gen. tC to have a knarly 2.7L engine. If the tC gets it, then so will the Camery, and all other vehicles that currently have the 2.4L will probably eventually step up to the 2.7L , and the 2.4L will then slowly go extinct ... but I'm not so sure this will happen.
Considering the new tC will be a 2010 model(isn't this correct??) , that would place it probably coming out in mid- '09 ... at the earliest, correct ?? So, we are still a good 1+ year away of knowing the real specifics of what to expect.
I'd like to see the new tC get a 2.7L ... step it up a bit, but still keep it 4cyl, but its on the large side of 4cyl
How is it currently being done on the Tacoma 2.7L (and who else shares the 2.7 .... Rav 4 ... Highlander ???) , isn't it VVT-i ? Not dual VVT-i or dual VVTL-i . Usually, 9/10 Toyota will simply transfer over what engines they already have stock of/ placed order for ..... to then fill the next year model cars , unless Toy. seriously looked into the future way back in 2005-06 , and were thinking they'd make an exception for the next Gen. tC to have a knarly 2.7L engine. If the tC gets it, then so will the Camery, and all other vehicles that currently have the 2.4L will probably eventually step up to the 2.7L , and the 2.4L will then slowly go extinct ... but I'm not so sure this will happen.
Considering the new tC will be a 2010 model(isn't this correct??) , that would place it probably coming out in mid- '09 ... at the earliest, correct ?? So, we are still a good 1+ year away of knowing the real specifics of what to expect.
